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M

markthespark

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Hi ive been asked by a mate of a mate to do the electrical work in this office and workshop. Things like add extra sockets, change lights possibly some 3 phase work etc

When i do these jobs do i need to get it tested? Im not NICEIC and dont have test meters

I now just do domestic and know how it works for domestic installations but i served my time with a commercial firm and i cant remember us ever testing minor jobs like the ones ive mentioned above. Even some new installations i cant remember testing.

I am ok just doing the jobs and not testing it?

Also do i need to make sure the sockets are on an RCD?

Or even if i did test them do i need to be a member of the NICEIC, NAPIT etc

Cheers
 
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ian.settle1

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Mentor
Arms
Hi ive been asked by a mate of a mate to do the electrical work in this office and workshop. Things like add extra sockets, change lights possibly some 3 phase work etc

When i do these jobs do i need to get it tested? Im not NICEIC and dont have test meters

I now just do domestic and know how it works for domestic installations but i served my time with a commercial firm and i cant remember us ever testing minor jobs like the ones ive mentioned above. Even some new installations i cant remember testing.

I am ok just doing the jobs and not testing it?

Also do i need to make sure the sockets are on an RCD?

Or even if i did test them do i need to be a member of the NICEIC, NAPIT etc

Cheers
How do you test your domestic work??:eek:
 
M

markthespark

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #3
One of the lads i work with does the testing.
 
S

Shakey

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #4
Hi ive been asked by a mate of a mate to do the electrical work in this office and workshop. Things like add extra sockets, change lights possibly some 3 phase work etc

When i do these jobs do i need to get it tested? Im not NICEIC and dont have test meters

I now just do domestic and know how it works for domestic installations but i served my time with a commercial firm and i cant remember us ever testing minor jobs like the ones ive mentioned above. Even some new installations i cant remember testing.

I am ok just doing the jobs and not testing it?

Also do i need to make sure the sockets are on an RCD?

Or even if i did test them do i need to be a member of the NICEIC, NAPIT etc

Cheers
Mark

the requirement for testing and certification is exactly the same for commercial industrial or domestic

this is outside Part P and you dont need to be a member of any organisation to test and issue appropriate certification

But you do need to test!!!!

This is a requirement of BS7671, and under the 17th edition, the book specifially states that certificates must be issued for ALL electrical work

best you start investing in a test meter!!!:eek:
 
M

mike

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #5
i thort you needed to a member of a organisation to cercificate. what is the point of them then?
 
S

Shakey

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #6
i thort you needed to a member of a organisation to cercificate. what is the point of them then?
well Mike many have asked the same question!!!

the only requirement to test and inspect is COMPETENCE

you dont need 2391, to be a memeber of NICEIC, NAPIT or anyone else

NICEIC even sell certificates for use by non-members!!!

I am not a member of any organisation, but i still do PIR's and just issue generic certificates
 
W

wayne

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #7
again i agree with shakey all work needs inspecting& testing
many a time i've said i wont energise the installation till its tested
 
T

tony.towa

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #8
Have only recently joined the forum so am catching up on all the threads. Some very experienced sparks out there but I could play Devil's Advocate now and refer to Shakey's reply and say what is a competant person? Realistically this is another wonderful side to our industry where the regulations are not statutory (yet) and unfortunately interpretation is only confirmed when someone ends up in a law court.
 
W

wayne

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #9
tony , you may have seen some previous posts reguarding competence /qualification/experience its been well debated and its good to read new views on the subject:D:D:D
 
4

4x4 mark

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #10
without a doubt all electrical work does need to be tested and a cert issued, it will usually state in the contract that it should be by nic eic but if its for your mate then its up to him if your not. competance usually means trained and hold relevant qualifications for the job.
 
tony.towa if i get a mo, i'll find the threads for ya, because this is a question which goes on and on and shakey finishes it ;) lol,

like i sed, i'll try finding the decent ones and post em up, or you could try searchin the forum ?
 
S

Sparky83

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #12
Would you test a circuit and issue a certificate if you were replacing something on that circuit like for like, ie socket, light switch, breaker etc etc??
 
R

ridleyelec

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #13
I would test and issue a minor works certificate for all small jobs. How do you know there was not a fault on the circuit you have just been working on. It's your responsibilty to make sure you leave it safe. Don't forget to check the bonding etc before you start any work
 
D

dixon9

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #14
I am not a member of any organisation, but i still do PIR's and just issue generic certificates

And on domestic work?

(If so just curious how you "get round it").
 
S

Shakey

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #15
And on domestic work?

(If so just curious how you "get round it").
I dont 'get round' anything

I do PIR's on domestic properties and issue a generic PIR, which i am perfectly entitled to do

I do domestic installations and issue a generic EIC, and use my LABC for notifiable work

I do industrial installations and issue a generic EIC

what am i getting around:confused::confused::confused:
 
D

dixon9

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #16
I dont 'get round' anything

I do PIR's on domestic properties and issue a generic PIR, which i am perfectly entitled to do

I do domestic installations and issue a generic EIC, and use my LABC for notifiable work

I do industrial installations and issue a generic EIC

what am i getting around:confused::confused::confused:

Fine. So what you are saying is that to do PIR´s in a domestic situation there is no requirement to be Part P registered? (I didn´t realise this - sorry - all I´m trying to do here is establish what you mean).
 
S

Shakey

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #17
Fine. So what you are saying is that to do PIR´s in a domestic situation there is no requirement to be Part P registered? (I didn´t realise this - sorry - all I´m trying to do here is establish what you mean).
Dixon ol' chap, there is no requirement to be Part P registered to do ANYTHING in a domestic property;)

and anyway, PIR's do not come under the Part P requirements, as you are not installing anything;)
 
D

dixon9

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #18
Well I realise if you notify LABC then you do not need to be Part P registered - didn´t realise you could do PIR´s without notifying though.

Interesting.
 
S

Shakey

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #19
Well I realise if you notify LABC then you do not need to be Part P registered - didn´t realise you could do PIR´s without notifying though.

Interesting.
yep, it is interesting....but think about it, electrical installation work in domestic dwellings is classed as 'building work', which is how it comes under the building regs in the form of Part P

but you are not installing anything

i did a PIR a while back

I KNOW the guy had done a rewire himself

I am fairly certain he did not use building control

I KNOW he did not do an EIC for the work

Did I care? not a jot. He commisioned me to do a PIR and thats what I did, I compiled a report on the condition of the existing installation, its nothing to do with me what was dne to get it into that condition

Part P didnt apply to me (but i made sure I ticked the box that said 'evidence of alteration/extension etc):p
 
D

dixon9

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #20
yep, it is interesting....but think about it, electrical installation work in domestic dwellings is classed as 'building work', which is how it comes under the building regs in the form of Part P

but you are not installing anything

i did a PIR a while back

I KNOW the guy had done a rewire himself

I am fairly certain he did not use building control

I KNOW he did not do an EIC for the work

Did I care? not a jot. He commisioned me to do a PIR and thats what I did, I compiled a report on the condition of the existing installation, its nothing to do with me what was dne to get it into that condition

Part P didnt apply to me (but i made sure I ticked the box that said 'evidence of alteration/extension etc):p
You mean you didn´t tick it (No DEIC) ? (í.e no doc evidence)
 
K

keith

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #21
Im a humble maintenance spark by trade and a little confused by nic eic /napit etc ...am considering doing 2391 ...done 16th in 2000 ....if i get 2391 do i need to inform labc if i do any domestic work and inspect and test myself
 
W

WarrenG

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #22
Im a humble maintenance spark by trade and a little confused by nic eic /napit etc ...am considering doing 2391 ...done 16th in 2000 ....if i get 2391 do i need to inform labc if i do any domestic work and inspect and test myself
Keith if you are a member of one of the scheme's such as Napit / NICEIC / Elecsa etc for domestic work, the scheme will notify the LABC on your behalf. But only for work that falls under Part P of the Building Regulations. Where it is notifiable.

Being a member of a scheme tends to be an easier and cheaper route if you do a lot of domestic work as the LABC will charge for every job you register with them under Part P.

Here is more info on Part P:

http://www.esc.org.uk/pdfs/safety-in-the-home/PartP.pdf

And a link to a Napit Guide to Part P with jobs that are notifiable

http://www.voltimum.co.uk/news/4016/s/NAPIT-Easy-Guide-to-PART-P.html

You would still give the customer a certificate for the work (i.e. Minor works or Electrical Installation Certificate) and log the job with your chosen scheme.

The scheme will then notify the local LABC for the area so no need for you to do it. The LABC then send to the customer's address additional confirmation that the electrical work undertaken by you complies with Part P of the building Regulations.

Obviously when you join a scheme they will be out to vet you, your qualifications, insurances etc, etc to meet with their criteria. Oh and charge you silly money for the privilege.


Some Scheme's

NAPIT - NAPIT - Home

NICEIC - Welcome to NICEIC, the home of electrical contracting excellence — NICEIC Group

Elecsa - Welcome to ELECSA


Hope this helps.

Warren
 
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K

keith

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #23
Thanks for the information , things are much clearer now.
 

Des 56

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Arms
Esteemed
well Mike many have asked the same question!!!

t

you dont need 2391, to be a memeber of NICEIC, NAPIT or anyone else



You most certainly do need 2391 with Napit full scope
They dont have domestic installers, only niceic accept that level
 

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