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-sparky-pl-

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Hallo guys, im a little confused, i was wiring beauty salon for another company, they asked me to install fire alarm system. They call someone to do fire risk assesment, and the guy told us that we will be ok installing standard domestic-like type detectors with 3core + e cable. I used the Aico detectors because u can add to them manual call points and external siren. They are with lithium battery that will last for 10 years.

Now someone told me that we will have problem with the council, because we should have the integrated system with a key, heat resistant cable etc...
it will cost a little fortune to change this!! And the worst is that propably i will be blamed..

Can anyone advise me with this??
 
S

Spudnik

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #2
Tricky one really, as this is regarded as a public place, however, not all public places require this.

Who said you would have a problem with the council?

have you contacted the council about it?

Then again, why are the council involved?

I am in the middle of fitting out a kitchen showroom, and the designer didnt even specify smoke detectors!
 
S

-sparky-pl-

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #3
Another builder. If it was just a builder i wouldn't worry, but this one was really experienced builder.
Building control is involved because it is a new build place, on high street with flats above.
No i did not contact building control, it is not really down to me. But the people that manage the project don't really bother. Before i will go to them i need to be sure..what to say!
 
J

johnnyb

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #4
Not 100% sure on this mate, but i think that if the salon has 5 or less employees the system you have used is ok, more than 5 it becomes a commercial project where a proper F/Alarm system would have to be installed using FP cable seems the norm these days, so legs crossed you may be ok. Would like confirmation of some other members 1st though.
 
S

Spudnik

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #5
Im also doing this TV shop refurb with flats above and they have around 10 employees.

No mention of a fire alarm system requirement in the shop tho.
 
J

johnnyb

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #6
Yeh , Its just something a Fire Officer told us a while ago, regs have probably changed as they do, i am sure theres something about the amount of employees are working there?
 
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Dan924

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #7
Commercial buildings that have domestic accommodation above would usually require a full fire system including sounders in the dwellings above, defiantly if there is a kitchen in the commercial work area.
Unless there is a specific requirement for MICC or FP cabling it is OK to use PVC on the detection circuits, but the 30min rule apply's to the sounder circuits, so if you mean by integrated these jobs use the same cabling then the 30min rule will apply to all the cabling within that system.
 
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D

desertbootz

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #8
The Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005

Duties under this Order
5. —(1) Where the premises are a workplace, the responsible person must ensure that any duty imposed by articles 8 to 22 or by regulations made under article 24 is complied with in respect of those premises.

Duty to take general fire precautions
8. —(1) The responsible person must—
(a) take such general fire precautions as will ensure, so far as is reasonably practicable, the safety of any of his employees; and

(b) in relation to relevant persons who are not his employees, take such general fire precautions as may reasonably be required in the circumstances of the case to ensure that the premises are safe.

I couldn't be ***** to type out the other ones :O)

Someone is responsible under CDM, HASAW, Building Regs and probably others. If it were me I'd be very wary if there is no design... Like Dan says, you might get away with PVC on detection but not sounders. BC or local FO would be best ones to ask and as for you getting 'the blame' I know what my response would be but then again you might want work from these guys in the future :O)
 
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S

-sparky-pl-

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #9
Thanks for that!

What if the flats above have own proper fire detection system installed, will that change anything?
 
S

suburban

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #10
Hallo guys, im a little confused, i was wiring beauty salon for another company, they asked me to install fire alarm system. They call someone to do fire risk assesment, and the guy told us that we will be ok installing standard domestic-like type detectors with 3core + e cable. I used the Aico detectors because u can add to them manual call points and external siren. They are with lithium battery that will last for 10 years.

Now someone told me that we will have problem with the council, because we should have the integrated system with a key, heat resistant cable etc...
it will cost a little fortune to change this!! And the worst is that propably i will be blamed..

Can anyone advise me with this??
I'd be inclined to keep any details/drawings/correspondence of the risk assessment fella as he should be answerable for the design if there is any queries.
 
M

matthunt

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #11
Hi guys, if you are wiring a fire alarm system in an area that has occupants above, i.e. flats etc then it will need to be a full L1 (life coverage system) as ammended by BS 5839, all cabling including detection and mains supply needs to be fire rated, ihope this helps.
 

Des 56

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Arms
Esteemed
Hallo guys, im a little confused, i was wiring beauty salon for another company, they asked me to install fire alarm system. They call someone to do fire risk assesment, and the guy told us that we will be ok installing standard domestic-like type detectors with 3core + e cable. I used the Aico detectors because u can add to them manual call points and external siren. They are with lithium battery that will last for 10 years.

Now someone told me that we will have problem with the council, because we should have the integrated system with a key, heat resistant cable etc...
it will cost a little fortune to change this!! And the worst is that propably i will be blamed..

Can anyone advise me with this??
Whoever it was that did the fire risk assessment are responsible for its compliance
Their assessment should reference BS5839 and also BS 5266 (el)
The assessor will be registered for carrying out this work and the probability is that it will comply
It is not your worry or concern as long as that person was a responsible person
 
Im doing something similar, at the moment im working to L3 but may have to add void detection to roof space to make L2. If you google multiple occupancies i found loads of different council specs you may be able to find your local requirements
 
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