Consumer Unit Positioning on New Build Flat (2011)

[oasisman]

Hi,

I purchased a new build flat in Greater London, it's a duplex, the Consumer Unit is fitted in a cupboard under the stairs, however I have a massive boiler right up against it. So close to the Consumer Unit I can't even see all the labels located on the Consumer Unit, not sure how I would know what to switch on/off if I needed to, other than by using a camera phone to take a picture and sliding my hand and counting the switches. I've done some talking with the builder, they state it's fine and to speak with my local building control. So that's what I did, I phoned Sutton Council, spoke to Building Control, they stated my flat had a valid electrical certificate, I told them the issue, Sutton Council say I need to take the builder to court and state my flat is not fit for purpose. Sutton council state there are no building regulations in relation to Consumer Units, I thought, surely this cannot be the case. I've since found the following (Part M, it seems is key):

17th Edition of the Wiring Regulations on the 1st January 2008 states (and I paraphrase) the below (regulation Part M)
Part P of the building regulations relates to the electrical safety in dwellings. The approved document prescribes that consumer units should be located so that they are easily reachable where this is necessary to comply with Part M of the building Regulations. Part M requires that reasonable provision be made for people to gain access to a building and use its facilities. The approved document prescribes that switches, socket outlets and “other equipment” needs to be at appropriate heights, these are defined as between 0.45m and 1.2m from finished floor level.


Other equipment includes the consumer unit, as it contains devices such as MCB’s and RCD’s that may need operation or resetting by the user of the dwelling. The consumer unit should therefore be accessible, with the devices mounted at a height no greater the 1.2m above the floor. In addition the consumer unit should not be in a location that would make it difficult to access such as an under stairs cupboard. Neither should it be placed in a position where is likely to be damaged by impact. Therefore depending on the layout of the dwelling a flush consumer unit may be considered.

For reference, here is the boiler I have installed, it's a big one: Exhaust Air heat pump - NIBE F470


Does this all sound right, am I correct that the Consumer Unit should have ease of access and not be obstructed?

 

[Octopus]

You need to post a picture so we can all see what you mean!

 

[markc123]

Yes you are correct.

Post up some pictures, be interesting too see - sounds like a complete mess.

 

[oasisman]

Will post a pic as soon as I can.

I've been telling the builder it's incorrectly positioned for 2 years!

I know what's happened, they put the right side wall in underneath the stairs and installed the electrics and consumer unit etc. Then they have got it certified, once all the boxes are ticked and the cert. is issued, they have then put the massive boiler in and then done a wall around it and fitted the door. They say the boiler cannot be moved as it's plumed in. All the duplex's are like this, as they all have the same floor plan, the other flats have decent cupboards for the Consumer Unit. I asked them to move the boiler as far left as they can, but they won't. I suspect they would have to take the wall down, un-plumb the boiler, move it 6 or so inches and plumb it back up again, then install a new wall; all sounds like a pain (+ money), hence they don't want to do it. They haven't said any of this, but this is what I assume has happened and why they don't want to go to the bother of moving the boiler.

Yes you are correct.

Post up some pictures, be interesting too see - sounds like a complete mess.

 

[Engineer54]

Without a photo, we can't tell how bad the situation is. The definitive question would be, can the cover of the CU be removed for maintenance or for MCB/RCD additions/replacements, by a qualified electrician?? If the answer is NO, then the CU is not fit for purpose, and can, .....no ''WILL'' be a very big problem for you or any future owners!!


Ask Sutton Building Control who actually police's/enforces the Building Regulations in the Sutton area if not the LABC. I'd be asking them straight, why ''THEY'' didn't pick it up at drawing submittal time, and/or during their regular site inspections...

 

[oasisman]

I will post a photo tonight so everyone can see.

The boiler is very obtrusive, when I first moved in and the BT guy came, he had major trouble getting access to the telephone line, as that is below the consumer unit, in the end he left the cover off and said he just can't get it back on, simply couldn't squeeze his arm down there any further.

Good point about the cover, it might be able to be removed, and if so, it would be difficult, there is only just enough room for the clear plastic swing-down cover to open (just).

Another good point about speaking to Sutton Building Control again, when I first spoke to them, they stated since it has an electrical cert. it must have been fine at the time.

Every electrician I've had in have said they wouldn't go near it, my cousin is an electrician (but I don't think he knows all the regulations etc.) You can only read the first few labels on there, the rest you have to take a photograph with a camera phone or look at the electrical cert.

Will post photo tonight.

Without a photo, we can't tell how bad the situation is. The definitive question would be, can the cover of the CU be removed for maintenance or for MCB/RCD additions/replacements, by a qualified electrician?? If the answer is NO, then the CU is not fit for purpose, and can, .....no ''WILL'' be a very big problem for you or any future owners!!


Ask Sutton Building Control who actually police's/enforces the Building Regulations in the Sutton area if not the LABC. I'd be asking them straight, why ''THEY'' didn't pick it up at drawing submittal time, and/or during their regular site inspections...

 

[Engineer54]

Will post photo tonight.

You may have to contact one of the mod's administrators here, for early permission to post a photo. Automatic permission being given after 6 Posts...

 

[Octopus]

or to get you post count to 3 just do 3 more posts with 6 characters or more!

 

[oasisman]

Yeah, it seems I can't insert/upload an image yet, hopefully after this very post I'll be able to...

 

[oasisman]

Here are 2 pics:

 

[Octopus]

That's just plain stupid. Get the builder back and get it sorted. Nothing less would be acceptable.

 

[oasisman]

Yep, I'm trying but they keep saying it's too hard to move due to the boiler; they should've thought about that beforehand I'd say!

That's just plain stupid. Get the builder back and get it sorted. Nothing less would be acceptable.

 

[oasisman]

Here is a pic of the floor plan for that area, you can see this is under the stairs, the red square is the boiler and the green section is the consumer unit. I guess if there were more room, maybe it would be ok, but this simply isn't the case.

 

[oasisman]

Question... Where should it go...?

Without moving the boiler (although I'm guessing this will be different to move all the cables hooked up), maybe move it to the outter wall to the left of the boiler. Still this is under the stairs, and I intend to add doors etc. to add more usable storage, however, I would have a big enough door for someone to fully get in. (See Blue area in pic as a suggestion..)

 

[Octopus]

I'm afraid to suggest this but on the living room wall directly behind where it is now. That said you'll need a sparky who is a contortionist to do the work. I seriously can't believe this layout has been approved by building control

 

[Plonker 3]

That's just plain stupid, either the spark has got,it wrong or the plumber has. One of them should have noticed this. Get them back and ask them to explain how it is in a location that is easily accessible.

 

[markc123]

Even if the spark has got it wrong, surely whoever fitted the boiler should of flagged it up.

Without getting into an immigration debate, was the workforce, erm..british?

 

[danzor]

wow...

Where in Sutton are these flats?

 

[oasisman]

They are close to sutton, actually Carshalton is closer, the flats are in Wallington, opposite the Wallington Rail Station; it used to be an office block; Canon. The builder (who I won't name yet), purchased the building, obviously got the zoned changed to residential, converted it all to flats, and then built another 2 floors on top. At the road side of the building there are 7 duplex penthouse flats, I think these are the only ones that are effected. From what I know, all the single floor flats in the building have 2 closets, one housing the boiler and one for the consumer unit, but due to the fact I have stairs, they put everything under there.

I'll be calling Sutton Building Control again today to complain, and I'll also be calling the builer too.

wow...

Where in Sutton are these flats?

 

[Octopus]

I'll be calling Sutton Building Control again today to complain, and I'll also be calling the builder too.[/QUOTE]

Don't waste your time with phone calls: 3 letters with these photos

1. To Builder
2. To Local Building Control
3. NHBC


Shxt, shoddy work like that needs to be highlighted and reworked so people learn.

 

[oasisman]

I can see the name of the NIC EIC approved contractor who issued the electrical certificate, should I also call them?

I would say the builder and the electrical contractor are to blame here, equally, one the builder shouldn't have had a design which breaches building regulations, and the electrical contractor who installed the consumer unit shouldn't have done as it breaches the regulations. Having said these though, read one of my previous posts on this thread, I have a feeling the boiler wasn't even fitted when the consumer unit was fitted, quite impossible as there is no room, so in defense of the electrical contractor who installed it, to his knowledge it was a massive cupboard space, ideal and fully accessible for the consumer unit. However again, there is one more person/company to blame, whom issued the electrical certificate, either they issued it straight away after installation, or ignored regulations and issued it after the boiler was installed when it was blatantly illegally.

I will also blame the council, aren't they supposed to check as well, or do they just verify the electrical cert. is issued by an approved electrical contractor?

 

[oasisman]

A letter is probably more sensible.

I'll be calling Sutton Building Control again today to complain, and I'll also be calling the builder too.[/QUOTE]

Don't waste your time with phone calls: 3 letters with these photos

1. To Builder
2. To Local Building Control
3. NHBC


Shxt, shoddy work like that needs to be highlighted and reworked so people learn.

 

[oasisman]

I also have another issue which I'll post at some point this week in relation to building regulations.
I can't seem to find the building regs for ventilation in an enclosed bathroom; I feel there may be issues with one bed 1's en-suite bathroom.

I will compose some letters and send them off ASAP.

 

[Octopus]

I can see the name of the NIC EIC approved contractor who issued the electrical certificate, should I also call them?
QUOTE]

Add them to your list of letters for good measure. Keep it polite and to the point. You have a problem and it needs resolving!

 

[oasisman]

This is what I'm afraid of too, I knew you'd say that, but it would be very unsightly in the living room, and wouldn't it be an issue with the reg. only slightly one could argue; the consumer unit shouldn't be in an area where there could be impact...?

I'm afraid to suggest this but on the living room wall directly behind where it is now. That said you'll need a sparky who is a contortionist to do the work. I seriously can't believe this layout has been approved by building control

 

[danzor]

They are close to sutton, actually Carshalton is closer, the flats are in Wallington, opposite the Wallington Rail Station; it used to be an office block; Canon. The builder (who I won't name yet), purchased the building, obviously got the zoned changed to residential, converted it all to flats, and then built another 2 floors on top. At the road side of the building there are 7 duplex penthouse flats, I think these are the only ones that are effected. From what I know, all the single floor flats in the building have 2 closets, one housing the boiler and one for the consumer unit, but due to the fact I have stairs, they put everything under there.

I'll be calling Sutton Building Control again today to complain, and I'll also be calling the builer too.

Ah yes I know the building well, I was surprised how quick they added the top floors.

Was the builder a local contractor?

 

[Octopus]

This is what I'm afraid of too, I knew you'd say that, but it would be very unsightly in the living room, and wouldn't it be an issue with the reg. only slightly one could argue; the consumer unit shouldn't be in an area where there could be impact...?

Well, you can't have it both ways! What about your neighbours - do they have similar issues?? If they do your combined "attack" would be better.

 

[danzor]

It's obvious the plumber came in after the plumber, but copy them all into the same email.

 

[oasisman]

Yep, all 7 duplexs are the same layout.

Well, you can't have it both ways! What about your neighbours - do they have similar issues?? If they do your combined "attack" would be better.

 

[Octopus]

Yep, all 7 duplexs are the same layout.

In which case you know what you collectively need to do then. Nobody can say that the CU/boiler position is acceptable

 

[danzor]

Yep, all 7 duplexs are the same layout.

Who was the main contractor

 

[oasisman]

I'm not sure if it was a local contractor who did this installation, but I obviously know the builder who I bought from and coordinated the effort.

Is it alright to mention the builders name...?

Ah yes I know the building well, I was surprised how quick they added the top floors.

Was the builder a local contractor?

 

[danzor]

PM me I'd like to know, as I'm only up the road

 

[oasisman]

Done

PM me I'd like to know, as I'm only up the road

 

[oasisman]

Well, it's taken nearly 2 years to agree that the CU is incorrectly positioned but they finally have come to their senses.

Here is their reply:

"In respect of the consumer unit. This is not correct and needs to be addressed. I have engaged an electrical contractor who will be providing me with possible solutions to this issue. I can confirm at this stage that we intend to take action in relation to this issue."

This reply is from the very same guy which said it was fine, he even came to my property and looked at it and said it was ok.

 

[Octopus]

Well, it's taken nearly 2 years to agree that the CU is incorrectly positioned but they finally have come to their senses.

Here is their reply:

"In respect of the consumer unit. This is not correct and needs to be addressed. I have engaged an electrical contractor who will be providing me with possible solutions to this issue. I can confirm at this stage that we intend to take action in relation to this issue."

This reply is from the very same guy which said it was fine, he even came to my property and looked at it and said it was ok.

How anyone can sew the position of the CU is acceptable is mad. Did he leave his guide dog in his car?

 

[telectrix]

would the guy who fitted that boiler fit it in front of the kitchen cooker so you could not use the cooker???? of course he would, he's a plumber.

 

[Engineer54]

T

Here are 2 pics:

View attachment 22752

View attachment 22753

That installation contravenes basic commonsense, let alone relevant Building Codes!! lol!!

You'll not get that CU front cover off, not without breaking something... So get something done about this situation, or hope and pray that none of the CU components go belly up, while you're living there!! lol!!

 

[oasisman]

I'm trying, they are looking into it and the builder said they are getting suggestions from contractors.

I'm not sure where the CU can go, if it's behind where it is in the living room, it could be knocked, so that breaches the regulations too. If it is moved to under the stairs (where I've highlighted the green box on the floor plan (see earlier attached in this thread)), that access is slightly restricted, but is probably the best of the two locations it can go.

It's mainly because the boiler (exhaust fan system) is so damn big, if it were 1/3 of the size and installed to the left of the cupboard space, access to the CU where it is would be fine.

T

That installation contravenes basic commonsense, let alone relevant Building Codes!! lol!!

You'll not get that CU front cover off, not without breaking something... So get something done about this situation, or hope and pray that none of the CU components go belly up, while you're living there!! lol!!

 

[Octopus]

Nothing wrong with a cup in the lounge. Many house's are like this. As for being knocked, that's why they have covers.