Customer doesnt want us to complete!

[MTI]

The thing is technically it is no longer my work and any work i did is incomplete. where do i stand? I have read that certs are seperate to any other civil or contract agreement. At the end of the day, if a mechanic built a car and then a paint sprayer altered a mechanical part for any reason then the mechanic is not at fault

 

[R G]

well, he would. it's not his family that will starve if you don't get paid. sometimes witholding a cert is the only way to deal with these shyster clients.

Exactly , I still would hold it back, That's the scams for you , they don't care about you!!

 

[chilliwilly]

Deleted.

 

[MTI]

On another note though , if all you have done is first fix , then certs cant be issued anyway.

some first and second fix but the thing is its been altered. Say you do a job (in general) and walk away having issued a cert for it and someone alters it then the cert is void. If it isnt at test and cert stage for the whole installation then no cert can be issued as you say but either way, its not my work now

 

[chilliwilly]

I had this out with an NIC inspector ,I told him I do not issue certs until payment is made, hesaid the payments are a seperate issue and certs still have to be issued!!

Yes that's right, certs have to be issued due to the nature of how the eaw regs are worded, if there's a loss your still liable even if you haven't been paid. But if there's no traceable agreement and only cash exchanged you woudn't be liable.

LABC is a grey area, as would be the case with a builder carrying out works with planning and not completing and the job not being passed.

 

[Gavin A]

a frre thanks given to the first member who points out what is wrong with those bottles in my last post.

that's easy. They're empty.

 

[moospark]

a frre thanks given to the first member who points out what is wrong with those bottles in my last post.

Theyre empty

 

[MTI]

Deleted.

cash and no agreement here but bring in the forensics and open a can of worms! i just gave a vague invoice for works to date at short notice in hope of payment before i left site for the final time but it didnt work. I usually attach my final invoice and any agreements or letters with the cert on completion. Thats what you get when a builder in a pub invites you on site

 

[telectrix]

exactly. worry not. do not, under any circumstances, issue any paperwork whatever, with the exception of an invoice for work done, and/or a threatening letter. the customer is in breach of contract. ( even a verbal one) and as such is in the wrong from a legal point of view. what proof does he have that any of the work is yours? if you want redxress for what is owing, then go the legal route. if not, just walk away, but make sure you grass the buggers up to LABC and your cps scheme.

 

[R G]

The thing is technically it is no longer my work and any work i did is incomplete. where do i stand? I have read that certs are seperate to any other civil or contract agreement. At the end of the day, if a mechanic built a car and then a paint sprayer altered a mechanical part for any reason then the mechanic is not at fault

No , you should be o/k there , you may have installed a few bits but work is incomplete , so no cert can be issued until completion, the customer has broken the agreement

 

[chilliwilly]

cash and no agreement here but bring in the forensics and open a can of worms! i just gave a vague invoice for works to date at short notice in hope of payment before i left site for the final time but it didnt work. I usually attach my final invoice and any agreements or letters with the cert on completion. Thats what you get when a builder in a pub invites you on site

I know what you mean, its a bad way to conduct business with strangers, its bad enough when they phone and have you come to meet with them.

 

[valleybilly]

Elecsa back up installers who don't get paid & insist no cert should be issued , nic are talking tosh , Never been given my MOT till Ive paid have you ? . Tell nic until they become MD's in your company ' which they think they already are ! Not ! then the Terms & conditions of any contract you decide to write & get the customer to sign are valid & this includes certs provided upon final balance paid & free tea ! .

 

[R G]

Elecsa back up installers who don't get paid & insist no cert should be issued , nic are talking tosh , Never been given my MOT till Ive paid have you ? . Tell nic until they become MD's in your company ' which they think they already are ! Not ! then the Terms & conditions of any contract you decide to write & get the customer to sign are valid & this includes certs provided upon final balance paid & free tea ! .

you will find contractual arrangements have to be kept seperate from Certs and notification process!!

 

[chilliwilly]

Elecsa back up installers who don't get paid & insist no cert should be issued , nic are talking tosh , Never been given my MOT till Ive paid have you ? . Tell nic until they become MD's in your company ' which they think they already are ! Not ! then the Terms & conditions of any contract you decide to write & get the customer to sign are valid & this includes certs provided upon final balance paid & free tea ! .

I know what your saying and I don't agree with them, but the niccy have some strange policies, and they're out to look after the public and not their members. But for whatever their reason the firms join them, they have to comply to their policies. Which one of them is submitting an NICEIC endorsed cert on completion of works. Allowing the contractor to be potentially p!ssed on by their customer.

I know with gas certs they have to be submitted to the customer by law, even if they haven't been paid, otherwise the gas safe business can be removed from the register and in some cases RIDDORED. The trouble is with that scenario, there is no other register for gas.

 

[shanky887614]

you will find contractual arrangements have to be kept seperate from Certs and notification process!!

you can't test a circuit till its finished and if a monkey comes along and the circuit no longer conformes to reg's then you cannot power it on as its no longer your problem and it would make the circuit safe

 

[valleybilly]

you will find contractual arrangements have to be kept seperate from Certs and notification process!!

Your quite correct ' Invoice in 1 pocket , Certs in another .

 

[Des 56]

I know what your saying and I don't agree with them, but the niccy have some strange policies, and they're out to look after the public and not their members. But for whatever their reason the firms join them, they have to comply to their policies. Which one of them is submitting an NICEIC endorsed cert on completion of works. Allowing the contractor to be potentially p!ssed on by their customer.

I know with gas certs they have to be submitted to the customer by law, even if they haven't been paid, otherwise the gas safe business can be removed from the register and in some cases RIDDORED. The trouble is with that scenario, there is no other register for gas.

There you are,all you need do now is decide if those words apply (considering the work is incomplete and/or doubts about who did what)

You have been Stung enough without pandering to alarm bells about wholly unnecessary certification:rockon:

 

[varilite]

Say to inspector I will give certificate without payment first if you do my assessment without payment first

 

[High Tower]

Ok haven't read all of the posts but a few points from me.

The NiC will tell you you cannot withhold Certs, and they are right!, the regs state that installations must be inspected, tested and certified upon completion, and withholding the Certs contravenes this!.

So the OP's situation.

1, document a written account of what has gone on in chronological order, including what has been agreed, done, said and altered, and more importantly by whom.

2, if you can, take pics, but don't worry if you can't, as they don't prove who is responsible for the bodgery.

3, report to LABC and you scheme

4, copy the correspondence to the client with a letter explaining that the installation is unsafe and does not comply, and that it should not be energised.

6, add to this correspondence a invoice for works completed as agreed by them at the rate agreed by them. Explain that they have 7 days to pay in full, after this time the value attracts the statatory 8% that you are legally allowed to levy, advise them that after 14 days it will be passed for collection. Refer them to your account of proceedings if they have any issues with this.

7, after 14 days issue a county court claim form( free and easy to do)

Always remember that the responsibility for anything electrical lies with the last person who touched it.

Sounds like relations are poor so you have nothing to loose by getting hard and serious with them!

http://justclaim.co.uk/court-forms/N1-claim-form.html

 

[shanky887614]

Ok haven't read all of the posts but a few points from me.

The NiC will tell you you cannot withhold Certs, and they are right!, the regs state that installations must be inspected, tested and certified upon completion, and withholding the Certs contravenes this!.

So the OP's situation.

1, document a written account of what has gone on in chronological order, including what has been agreed, done, said and altered, and more importantly by whom.

2, if you can, take pics, but don't worry if you can't, as they don't prove who is responsible for the bodgery.

3, report to LABC and you scheme

4, copy the correspondence to the client with a letter explaining that the installation is unsafe and does not comply, and that it should not be energised.

6, add to this correspondence a invoice for works completed as agreed by them at the rate agreed by them. Explain that they have 7 days to pay in full, after this time the value attracts the statatory 8% that you are legally allowed to levy, advise them that after 14 days it will be passed for collection. Refer them to your account of proceedings if they have any issues with this.

7, after 14 days issue a county court claim form( free and easy to do)

Always remember that the responsibility for anything electrical lies with the last person who touched it.

Sounds like relations are poor so you have nothing to loose by getting hard and serious with them!

Just Claim :: N1 Claim Form

yes but this guy didn't complete!!! the work so its no longer his problem.

infact the client told him to leave site thus ending the contract and by bringing in someone else to do the electrics it is no longer his responsibility to provide certs as it is no longer his installation