Customer thinks I’m ripping him off

[Zerax]

The ideal situation is where you have a large enough customer base that is happy to pay you sensible prices on the basis that they like you and the work that you do. You turn up on time, do a great job and clear up afterwards etc.. If you're always competing for work where your quotes are compared to others, it makes it a tough old game.

 

[nbwriter]

Hi guys, I read this post with interest... Here's my thoughts:

Putting together written quotes is an art form... Practice it (a lot)! If you are brave enough to go "self employed". Most customers want discounts, or desire a job done on "the cheap", but it's a false economy...

I ended up telling customers, yeh: you may get someone for £5 per hour, but they probably wont be good time-keepers, probably wont have much training, and probably wont do a high-quality job... (If the job gets done at all)!

I personally had so much trouble with "domestic clients" (non-business clients) I simply stopped taking those jobs - The problems the clients created were endless... Didn't pay on time, didn't understand how long a job takes, little regard for health and safety, little appreciation of the cost of tools & materials, poor communication skills, prone to argue (rather than co-operate to find workable solutions)...

... The lesson is, you have to think ahead, be prepared and cover yourself ALL the time...

But, sometimes, you just have to walk away... The client just isn't listening... On a positive note, I would (and do) say to any potential client, obtain 3 quotes... In writing... You can do that if you (the trader) know how competitive your rates are... The phone will keep ringing, sure as the sun rises.

Regards, NB (Old School Tech)

 

[Squid]

Sounds about right...my take home last year was about 8000.00

£154 per week? I earn't more in a day as an IT contractor.

 

[richy3333]

Ouch, firstly being SE on £15 per hour ....... you might as well be collecting trolleys in Tesco's

You HAVE to increase your rates, but doubling them for existing clients will always be hard so ....I would suggest increasing your existing customer rates to £20 immediately, and all new clients start with £32 minimum.

Are you registered with a CPS, have a van, the necessary insurances and your 18th?

Your overheads for the year will be about £6K so think hard about what you are doing and if some clients won't pay your new rate, let them find some MUG who will.

If you can find 10 clients willing to pay £30 per hour, means you can leave 20 paying £15 behind or you may find they will pay £20 this year then increase it next year to £24 (increments of £4 makes calculating 1/4 hours easier!)

Brilliant advice from Murdoch.

You have to drive your business. Decide on your USP and follow it. Your not a sparky first, you’re a business.
To put it into context, I charge out more than that for my apprentice. Think you have it hard. Try negotiating rates with teuchters!

 

[Welchyboy1]

Well it's not a particularly wealthy area....lots of unemployment...and yes I suppose there is lots of competition but other areas suffer in the same way i suppose

Is that rainham in essex?

Im just up the road between basildon and southend.

I charge around £55 per hour and im turning work away

Its your customers that are the issue either that or.......dont take this personally, the speed you work.

 

[Brian Taylor]

Thanks for the advice all...it's Rainham in Kent and my customers are all domestic....I must admit that being the wrong side of 60 I'm not as fast as someone half my age. I think what sinks me every time is the costs associated with the business...things like paying for and running a van, accountancy fees, insurance etc. Would love to know how others deal with this without becomeing uncompetitive

 

[Octopus]

Thanks for the advice all...it's Rainham in Kent and my customers are all domestic....I must admit that being the wrong side of 60 I'm not as fast as someone half my age. I think what sinks me every time is the costs associated with the business...things like paying for and running a van, accountancy fees, insurance etc. Would love to know how others deal with this without becomeing uncompetitive

If you are really only making £8k net profit, you would be better off doing pretty much ANYTHING else as you are earning below the minimum wage .......

 

[ferg]

Thanks for the advice all...it's Rainham in Kent and my customers are all domestic....I must admit that being the wrong side of 60 I'm not as fast as someone half my age. I think what sinks me every time is the costs associated with the business...things like paying for and running a van, accountancy fees, insurance etc. Would love to know how others deal with this without becomeing uncompetitive

To be brutally honest I deal with it by charging enough to cover it.

 

[Welchyboy1]

Thanks for the advice all...it's Rainham in Kent and my customers are all domestic....I must admit that being the wrong side of 60 I'm not as fast as someone half my age. I think what sinks me every time is the costs associated with the business...things like paying for and running a van, accountancy fees, insurance etc. Would love to know how others deal with this without becomeing uncompetitive

This is not working out for you because of general maths i would assume, if you have not allowed enough to cover your outgoings plus wages plus profit your going to slowly sink, if you really cannot manage to earn past this amount then maybe its best doing something which requires a lot less imput, hassle and risk but would probably pay you more money

Earning well in the trades is generally about pricing correctly, good planning and speed.

Always work on a price if you can, be bloody quick whilst keeping the standard high and you'll do very well.
If that doesnt suit you personally or your a little slower at what you do, the alternative is to just work for a company on a salary or day rate. That way theres no stress and your guarenteed about £15 per hour on your hip, in kent without too many problems i would imagine

 

[Squid]

Is that rainham in essex?

Im just up the road between basildon and southend.

I charge around £55 per hour and im turning work away

Its your customers that are the issue either that or.......dont take this personally, the speed you work.

Employ Brian Taylor pay him £20ph hour and chill out in your villa in Spain ;o)))))

 

[Brian Taylor]

Thanks for all your valuable advice gentleman....but like most of us i feel I'm stuck in this job until my state pension kicks in ...or beyond...Would love to know where these jobs are that pay £20:00 per hour...never seen them advertised.

 

[Octopus]

Thanks for all your valuable advice gentleman....but like most of us i feel I'm stuck in this job until my state pension kicks in ...or beyond...Would love to know where these jobs are that pay £20:00 per hour...never seen them advertised.

What jobs?

 

[telectrix]

rhought youse was self-employed and charging customers. never yet seen a customer that wasn't prepared to pay £20 +/ hr.

 

[Bobster]

I used to pay the neighbors kid ten quid an hour to clean the leaves up an cut the grass.

 

[telectrix]

cutting grass. that reminds me of a long ago scenario. i was a 12 year old boy scout, doing bob-a-job. called at a woman's house and she asked me if i could cut her lawn... i said OK, so she then gave me a pair of garden shears. first time in my life i ever used the F*ck word.

 

[Brian Taylor]

Just by way of getting an opinion on pricing and where I may be going wrong here are a few prices i have given over the last year.

New cooker circuit....80.00
Replace pendant drops with customer supplied lighting fittings.......50.00

small house rewire.......£1050.00

supply to garden shed.....300.00


Just a few examples of jobs lost due to price....maybe someone could comment on these prices....are they to high or not? Many thanks

 

[Bobster]

cutting grass. that reminds me of a long ago scenario. i was a 12 year old boy scout, doing bob-a-job. called at a woman's house and she asked me if i could cut her lawn... i said OK, so she then gave me a pair of garden shears. first time in my life i ever used the F*ck word.

I remember doing the same thing.

Neighbors lad was more of a favor for his parents, gave him something to do, took him an hour normally. Easier than me doing it an gives the lad some pocket money. Albeit you can't buy much with a tenner now a days.

 

[Octopus]

Just by way of getting an opinion on pricing and where I may be going wrong here are a few prices i have given over the last year.

New cooker circuit....80.00
Replace pendant drops with customer supplied lighting fittings.......50.00

small house rewire.......£1050.00

supply to garden shed.....300.00


Just a few examples of jobs lost due to price....maybe someone could comment on these prices....are they to high or not? Many thanks

Are you sure its the pricing that means you lose out?

There are some dam scruffy, rude sparks around me always fighting for scraps.

How long have you been SE?

 

[telectrix]

New cooker circuit....80.00 ...£120. - £150
Replace pendant drops with customer supplied lighting fittings.......50.00....£50 first one then £30 each
..
small house rewire.......£1050.00 ....£2400

supply to garden shed.....300.00,,, as a minimum with someone else doing the groundwork

your prices are too low by a mile. if you're losing on price, then you are cometing with dole ite cowboys.

 

[Brian Taylor]

Well that's a very good point it may well be that a proportion of the unemployed are in fact going the work to the detriment of the employed...do remember contacting a medium sized contracting company last year regarding some block rewiring they had from a large housing association....way too big for me but found out later that a small local company got the job at £970.00 per property ....in strip out,rewire and finish all within 3 days. Very difficult to match

 

[Squid]

I used to pay the neighbors kid ten quid an hour to clean the leaves up an cut the grass.

I'd keep that quiet to be honest Father Rob........

 

[Squid]

When I start my house rebuild I thinks I will employ Brian, you can crash in the new shed it will be comfy and I will supply the food. ;o))))

 

[telectrix]

When I start my house rebuild I thinks I will employ Brian, you can crash in the new shed it will be comfy and I will supply the food. ;o))))

add beer and I'll come over.

 

[remedial]

its possible you're losing jobs because customers think you're too cheap. if you're a lot cheaper than other quotes people will think you're a cowboy. and a lot of people just have a general rule of going with the second cheapest quote.

 

[Baddegg]

If you are losing money as you claim Tony you may as well up ya prices to where they need to be and see what happens you got nothing to lose.......worst case you’ll end end up working 2/3 days a week for the same dough you’ve been earning and get more time to chase the work you want, no point being a busy fool mate....I think you’ll be surprised and you will also see the calibre of your customers improve as well...

 

[remedial]

theres a lot to be said for being reassuringly expensive. and you'll get a better class of customer

 

[SparkyAndGeorge]

Way too cheap. By having your rate that low, you're actually devaluing the trade. People who are not in the industry see that figure then think all sparks are worth that much, hence the reasons you sometimes see jobs advertised at £10-11 per hour

 

[Squid]

add beer and I'll come over.

Tyskie, Perła, Zywiec or Warka Strong?

 

[telectrix]

Okocim

 

[Zerax]

Thanks for all your valuable advice gentleman....but like most of us i feel I'm stuck in this job until my state pension kicks in ...or beyond...Would love to know where these jobs are that pay £20:00 per hour...never seen them advertised.

Starting to feel for you now... the state pension is peanuts !!

 

[Brian Taylor]

Thanks for all the advice guys...you have given me something to think about....Will let you know how i get on

 

[telectrix]

Starting to feel for you now... the state pension is peanuts !!

why do you think i'm still working at 72?. OK, state pension pays essentials like beer and smokes. for luxuries like bills and food, i need to work

 

[123]

why do you think i'm still working at 72?. OK, state pension pays essentials like beer and smokes. for luxuries like bills and food, i need to work

That's about the 150th time you have told that joke.

Why are you still working at 72? My aim is to wrap up full time around 55, although would still be doing bits and bobs.

 

[ferg]

That's about the 150th time you have told that joke.

Why are you still working at 72? My aim is to wrap up full time around 55, although would still be doing bits and bobs.

It's his age.. getting forgetful.

I'm not sure I'd do well retired either TBH although I've a bit to go yet.

 

[telectrix]

That's about the 150th time you have told that joke.

Why are you still working at 72? My aim is to wrap up full time around 55, although would still be doing bits and bobs.

was no joke, more a statement of fact. at 72 though, i don't work full time and only take on small jobs. mentally i could not envisage stopping at home daytime watching crap on the telly and vegetating.

 

[Markyd]

Whats Welsh for......SEE YA

 

[nbwriter]

.I must admit that being the wrong side of 60 I'm not as fast as someone half my age. I think what sinks me every time is the costs associated with the business...things like paying for and running a van, accountancy fees, insurance etc. Would love to know how others deal with this without becomeing uncompetitive

i'm no spring chicken, either... ? but when you're the "other side" of 50, you usually have mountains of experience, are usually really good with people, and are usually someone who wants to do a quality job.
those three qualities alone, make you very hire-able.

Before my current job, I ran a "sole trader" business in "garden & property maintenance". This was a kind of "experiment" in a way, since I wanted to find out just how easy (or difficult) being "self-employed" really is..

Using very low-cost (well free) advertising, I just advertised locally. The phone rang. I got one regular client (who ran a large three-storey home and various "student properties"). Most of my other "clients" were "one-off" jobs, or "clients that caused endless problems". After a time, you get better at accessing jobs (and crucially) you get a feel for "customer personalities".

What you're talking about above is "overheads". Running a van, accountancy and insurance are all overhead. No profit... What the pros do is find ways to continually cut their overheads all the time. This is the secret to success in any business. The more you're saving, the more you're maximizing profit ?

thanks for reading, NB ?

 

[telectrix]

my last post i was 72. now 74 and still at it. won't be much longer though. legs knackered.

 

[nbwriter]

hi @telectrix

thanks for your contributions to my other threads ?

my last post i was 72. now 74 and still at it. won't be much longer though. legs knackered.

i took a gander at your profile... (hope you dont mind)? ? (i just had to update mine)!

my father was born same era as your good self, he worked in engineering all his life... the reason I can build shelves today, is because he taught me all about "pilot holes", fixings and using tools. where would I be without him?

sorry to hear about the legs... i'm actually working on an "energy field project" that stimulates brain activity while we sleep... it's a bit "experimental" (to say the least), but you never know... us "over 50s" might give these youngsters a run for their money.

kind regards, NB

 

[littlespark]

Energy field project? Sounds interesting....

but next time someone comes on here asking why they get a tingle off their bed, we now know the reason! ?

 

[telectrix]

Energy field project? Sounds interesting....

but next time someone comes on here asking why they get a tingle off their bed, we now know the reason! ?

or a chinese made electric blanket. ( marked as CE and Double insulated of course).

 

[Mike Johnson]

Come on guys, there was the American chap with the earth mat in his bed that Lucian had a very in depth conversation with.

 

[casperLennon]

@Brian Taylor
Wonder how your getting on after reading this post?

 

[nbwriter]

hi guys & gals:

thanks for good humour and feedback... makes all the difference in these uncertain times...

@littlespark : anyone who has a lego TARDIS as their avatar gets my vote ? (but how many of us know what T.A.R.D.I.S stands for without googling)? ?

energy field research is "interesting" (honest)! once you get into it : without having studied tesla or eric dollard, though, you might find it an uphill struggle. tesla was an outstanding electrical engineer, dollard is an old RCA and navy electrician (who knew his onions). (I think he's still with us...)

Come on guys, there was the American chap with the earth mat in his bed that Lucian had a very in depth conversation with.

knowing this forum well.. "in depth conversation" might be a tongue-in-cheek statement, nevertheless, if I told you guys earthing mats can be refined and integrated with earth's em field (that can then be harmonized) to produce "interesting brainwave activity", would you believe me? (probably not.. and you'd be right to question my findings. Just being able to detect ELF and human em fields is a technical challenge).

@casperLennon : yes, what happened to Brian? (lets hope he's doing ok and will keep in touch).

thanks for reading, NB

 

[static zap]

i could not envisage stopping at home daytime watching crap on the telly and vegetating.

That's the problem they got us to throw away our , untrendy
VHS copies and DVDs , put Carp on TV,
and sit back expecting to pay for Streaming services.
--CHANGE as ever , never for the better if you are a certain
age ..
Don't police men look young these days !

 

[ipf]

hi guys & gals:

That doesn't bring back nice memories!!!

 

[nbwriter]

That doesn't bring back nice memories!!!

hmm...yeh..! who used to say that? I think I'm showing my age ?

 

[Rockingit]

hi guys & gals:

thanks for good humour and feedback... makes all the difference in these uncertain times...

@littlespark : anyone who has a lego TARDIS as their avatar gets my vote ? (but how many of us know what T.A.R.D.I.S stands for without googling)? ?

energy field research is "interesting" (honest)! once you get into it : without having studied tesla or eric dollard, though, you might find it an uphill struggle. tesla was an outstanding electrical engineer, dollard is an old RCA and navy electrician (who knew his onions). (I think he's still with us...)



knowing this forum well.. "in depth conversation" might be a tongue-in-cheek statement, nevertheless, if I told you guys earthing mats can be refined and integrated with earth's em field (that can then be harmonized) to produce "interesting brainwave activity", would you believe me? (probably not.. and you'd be right to question my findings. Just being able to detect ELF and human em fields is a technical challenge).

@casperLennon : yes, what happened to Brian? (lets hope he's doing ok and will keep in touch).

thanks for reading, NB

TARDIS - OK, I’ll bite. It’s something like Time And Relative Dimension In Space. Not sure if it’s that exactly and I know I’ll kick myself when someone corrects me.

 

[nicebutdim]

hmm...yeh..! who used to say that? I think I'm showing my age ?

A certain former Knight Bachelor.

 

[telectrix]

TARDIS - OK, I’ll bite. It’s something like Time And Relative Dimension In Space. Not sure if it’s that exactly and I know I’ll kick myself when someone corrects me.

you're correct there.