Downlight Regulations

[DaveEyes]

I am trying to get a definitive answer to a question regarding the regulations on the installation of downlights.

Could you please tell me under what circumstances it is a legal requirement for fire safe downlights to be fitted rather than ordinary downlights.

I have a top floor flat with ordinary downlights fitted in a false ceiling. They use led bulbs.

I am concerned that an eicr survey will insist on the downlights being changed.

There is no accommodation above my flat.

Would you please be able to advise on this matter

Many thanks.

 

[littlespark]

When you say false ceiling, does that mean there’s another ceiling above? That’ll be the fire break.
As long as the downlights are wired correctly, connections in joint boxes, continuous earth wire etc, then I can’t see it being a problem.

 

[Mike Johnson]

What divides your flat from the loft area beside the false ceiling? if it's a concrete slab there will be no requirement for any additional fire compartmentation.

The problem is, if there are communal areas/fire escape routes outside the area of your flat, it then becomes a little more involved as to fire breaks and the construction above your false ceiling.

 

[Zerax]

Reg. 527.1.2: A wiring system shall be installed so that the general building structure performance and fire safety rating are not reduced.

Codebreakers shows your situation as a C3... that is, assuming that your ceiling is plasterboard and is acting as a fire barrier and it's not ground floor and there are no rooms above. So if an EICR picked them up and if the inspector follows Codebreakers they might give them a C3.

The beauty of an EICR is that you rarely find two alike... even for the same installation on the same day by the same inspector.

 

[littlespark]

A “false” ceiling implies there’s another on above the one that the downlights are installed in.

 

[Lister1987]

Rule as I understand it is if there is a permanent, non-premiable barrier (read; concrete compartment wall) seperating a living space from another, then fire rated downlights are not required but in all other cases where the is a habitable space above and no non-premiable barrier, then fire rated downlights are required.

 

[Vortigern]

If I may, that is a curious worry, getting an EICR and you are worried about your downlights? What prompted such a vision? It might be you have no cpc or a plastic box. Anyway who could force you to change your downlights, what are your circumstances. You say "an EICR may insist..." That is not quite how it works. An EICR advises as to the safety of the installation and it's continued use. Nobody is going to insist on anything. You will get the report and make a decision as to how you wish to proceed.

 

[DaveEyes]

What divides your flat from the loft area beside the false ceiling? if it's a concrete slab there will be no requirement for any additional fire compartmentation.

The problem is, if there are communal areas/fire escape routes outside the area of your flat, it then becomes a little more involved as to fire breaks and the construction above your false ceiling.

Thanks for the replies. The building dates back to 1895 and is converted into 5 separate flats. Mine is the top floor.
The false ceiling is made of pine cladding and the original ceiling above it is traditional lath and plaster.
Above that is the roof space.

 

[littlespark]

Off topic.
Thanks @DaveEyes, your “like” on my post #5 on this thread was my 6000th like!

 

[Mike Johnson]

Thanks for the replies. The building dates back to 1895 and is converted into 5 separate flats. Mine is the top floor.
The false ceiling is made of pine cladding and the original ceiling above it is traditional lath and plaster.
Above that is the roof space.

In that case there in all probability there will not be any fire curtains or barriers to separate your domicile from the general escape or safe zones, especially if there is more than one flat on your floor or there is an escape route onto the roof, in these circumstances fire rated down lighters will be required if you can not prove the containment of the lath and plaster ceiling.

 

[telectrix]

In that case there in all probability there will not be any fire curtains or barriers to separate your domicile from the general escape or safe zones, especially if there is more than one flat on your floor or there is an escape route onto the roof, in these circumstances fire rated down lighters will be required if you can not prove the containment of the lath and plaster ceiling.

but his false ceiling is not a fire barrier, so no fire barrier has been breached.

 

[westward10]

Not necessarily, the escape route should be protected to prevent the spread of fire and smoke. Without physically being there it is difficult to comment.

 

[Zerax]

Off topic.
Thanks @DaveEyes, your “like” on my post #5 on this thread was my 6000th like!

Have you got the right number of zeros on that ??

 

[DaveEyes]

In that case there in all probability there will not be any fire curtains or barriers to separate your domicile from the general escape or safe zones, especially if there is more than one flat on your floor or there is an escape route onto the roof, in these circumstances fire rated down lighters will be required if you can not prove the containment of the lath and plaster ceiling.

Ok thanks.. So if I did change the downlights for fire rated ones is that a job I can do myself as a DIY guy or is notifiable and needing to be done by a certified electrician?

Thanks again
Dave

 

[Mike Johnson]

Oh what can I say without wearing a tin hat, not notifiable because you are not modifying a circuit just changing a light fitting.

 

[westward10]

If your ceiling is wood panelled then fire rated downlights are pointless unless the wood panelling is aesthetic lining to another surface.

 

[DaveEyes]

Oh what can I say without wearing a tin hat, not notifiable because you are not modifying a circuit just changing a light fitting.

OK thanks.