EICR Codings

[uksparks]

Hi,

I don't tend to do EICR's that often, and have just done one and wanted a little advice as to if my codings are correct or maybe little over the top. Like I say, I tend to go on the side of safety and really just looking for a bit of direction and if I am working along the right lines.

Ideally not long for abuse, just some constructive feedback.

Thanks,

C1...Exposed live parts on Fuse 4 in at main board
C1...IP Rating of fuse box is less than satisfactory, should be IP4X on top (large hole)


C2...Open circuit on plug circuit line conductor, potential for overloading part of circuit
C2...Dead short on three out of five circuits between live and neutral, this is a potential fire hazard
C2...No main bonding to incoming water supply and no appropriate labels
C2...Consumer tails from meter and service head to meter are largely unsupported (6 inches away from wall travelling two feet or more from board across corner of room through hole in wall, could easily be snagged etc or pulled)


C2...Fuse 3 has 2x 20 amp fuse wire fitted, potential for overloading circuits connected to it (2x 2.5mm radials)


C2...Non grey sheathed cables hanging loose and unsupported in hall cupboard
C2...Sockets used for outdoor power and for ordinary use not RCD protected and outside in garage, customer does not use RCD plug.


C2...Light circuit has no earth and CLASS 1 fittings are being used
C2...Wooden back boxes have been used on a number of the fittings; this is a fire hazard as its a combustible material.


C3...MET on service head is exposed, could do with replacing
C3...No circuit labels or identification of circuits at fuse box
C3...No mixed wiring colour warning label on fuse box for conservatory wiring
C3...No brown sleeve on any switched live conductors at fittings and lack of CPC covering on the majority
C3...Non heat resistant flex used on water heater
C3...Incorrect use of grey twin and earth used outside of property to feed security light
C3...Cables touching gas pipe in hall cupboard
C3...Conductors under undue strain at fused spur on upstairs landing

The list goes on with loads more C3's

 

[telectrix]

can't see much wrong with those codes, mate.

 

[uksparks]

Its amazing how many things you find when you start looking isnt it.

 

[uksparks]

I think my main issue was do you give wooden backbones a C2 or C3, I guess it depends how you look at it, but I think C2 is more suitable as its got the potential to burn your house down in the event of a fault, which is dangerous.

 

[telectrix]

that's 1 that i was considering might only be worth a 3. i'd only be worried about fire if it was in a flammable wall. e.g. lath/plaster or studding.

 

[uksparks]

I suppose it's up to the discretion of the person inspecting, it doesn't make any odds on this as there's plenty else wrong with it anyway, if it was the tipping point then I may reconsider.

 

[uksparks]

Thanks for taking a look, much appreciated.

 

[HandySparks]

What's the material of the incoming water supply pipe as it enters the building?

 

[uksparks]

It's metal, not plastic. There was a lot of other C3 all over the place, this was done for someone I know who's just sold their house to a builder, I think he said persimmon homes or something? They have just this morning said how much to fix the C1 and C2's, oh god... its not worth it, it needs a rewire anyway, everything is ancient and falling apart as it is. It would need a new CU minimum, but then you have all the broken circuits etc to find, rather someone else than me if they want remedial not a rewire!

 

[bigbaddave]

I allways find EICR on older houses that aint been touched in years allways require remidial work.. One guy says the boiler flies through every year so there will be no issue with the electrics..

OH BOY HOW HE WAS WRONG...

 

[SirKit Breaker]

I'll throw my hat in the ring on this one.

You are the man on the ground, so only you can make a sound judgement, so i won't agree/disagree with anything you have written.

This is what GN3 says about it.

C1, Danger present now. These must be brought to the attention of the responsible person/user/client etc immediately, and isolation and/or rectification is the be RECOMMENDED without delay.

C2, Is not dangerous at the present time, but if left unattended, it will become a C1 sooner rather than later, and rectification is advised ASAP.

C3, This is only to be used where improvement is advised or recommended.

C1 or C2, cannot and should not be used just because the installation does not meet the current version of BS7671.

The example i use is RCD's. If the install has no RCD's, and it wasn't a requirement at the time the install was first commissioned, then there is no obligation to fit them now. If the installation met the standards required when it was first installed, it was safe then, and if the only thing wrong with it now, is that it doesn't comply with current regs, then there is nothing wrong with it, and it remains safe for continued use. You can only ADVISE improvement for things like installation of RCD's and use the code C3.

It is well explained in both BS7671, and GN3. You can't force change or opinions onto people. I am not trying to imply that you or anyone else is trying to do this, but when using these codings, they need to be fully understood, as we are giving an expert engineering view of the installation, so we need to adopt giving expert advice to keep the trade professional.

Cheers………….Howard

 

[telectrix]

i've got 1 tomorrow, but already have been informed that there's no main bonding. he's happy to pay for that to be done before i do the eicr. now, i've not seen the place yet, but am informed that it's a terraced with CU at front door and water intake in back kitchen, with laminate floors up and down. YUK. going by the "as close as practicable to the point of entry", how close is practical? if there's no route without damaging the flooring, how far do you go to comply? i know what i'd like to do, but would appreciate any other viewpoints.

 

[i=p/u]

Within 600mm or reasonably practical.

 

[i=p/u]

Is t&e not allowed to be used outside for light... I'd say this is untrue , can you expand ..

 

[telectrix]

it is allowed. just not good practice as it's eventually damaged by UV.

 

[markc123]

it is allowed. just not good practice as it's eventually damaged by UV.

After about 200years maybe. i've IR'd t+e thats 50year old and still had a respectable reading.

I understand what you're saying though, it does eventually de-grade. However, sparks these days seem to have got into ITS ILLEGAL mode, which it isn't. Installed correctly, without any kinks t+e is sturdier than you think.

Just to point out, i always use flex outside...only for cosmetic reasons though really.

 

[Richard Burns]

i've got 1 tomorrow, but already have been informed that there's no main bonding. he's happy to pay for that to be done before i do the eicr. now, i've not seen the place yet, but am informed that it's a terraced with CU at front door and water intake in back kitchen, with laminate floors up and down. YUK. going by the "as close as practicable to the point of entry", how close is practical? if there's no route without damaging the flooring, how far do you go to comply? i know what i'd like to do, but would appreciate any other viewpoints.

This is a bit of a mess of a situation, as main bonding often is. Three possibilities occur to me, run the cable through the house on the surface along the skirting or such, can be easily painted over but will look bad, run the cable up the outside wall into the loft across the loft down the rear outside wall and onto the water, run the cable up the house into the loft and bond to the main water pipe on the cold water tank.
None of which are ideal or particularly sensible.
Last one is look next door and if they have main bonding to water put a 10mm fromtheir CU to yours and at the back link their water to yours, sorted!

 

[telectrix]

like you thinking on the last bit. i'll let all know what i come up with when i've seen the job.

 

[BES]

i've got 1 tomorrow, but already have been informed that there's no main bonding. he's happy to pay for that to be done before i do the eicr. now, i've not seen the place yet, but am informed that it's a terraced with CU at front door and water intake in back kitchen, with laminate floors up and down. YUK. going by the "as close as practicable to the point of entry", how close is practical? if there's no route without damaging the flooring, how far do you go to comply? i know what i'd like to do, but would appreciate any other viewpoints.

Had board change in 80's house customer wanted no floor boards lifting nearest pratical place to bond gas was in loft space of garage where feed to boiler was but not easily accessible so had to run bond up through bedroom through main loft out into 20mm pvc conduit to gas meter cabinet
long run but under recomended 0.05 ohm. It was tncs but when checked size of old main bonding it wasn't 6mm but 4 amd would of meant extending it anyway. Did same with water but ran in conduit out if garage round kitchen through wall to water. All because customer didn't want floor boards lifting !!!

 

[uksparks]

Is t&e not allowed to be used outside for light... I'd say this is untrue , can you expand ..

PI just felt its not appropriate and flex would be better in black, I know it's probably never going to wear out, but I do feel it's the wrong ccable for the job, so C3 improvement recommended.

 

[uksparks]

I'll throw my hat in the ring on this one.

You are the man on the ground, so only you can make a sound judgement, so i won't agree/disagree with anything you have written.

This is what GN3 says about it.

C1, Danger present now. These must be brought to the attention of the responsible person/user/client etc immediately, and isolation and/or rectification is the be RECOMMENDED without delay.

C2, Is not dangerous at the present time, but if left unattended, it will become a C1 sooner rather than later, and rectification is advised ASAP.

C3, This is only to be used where improvement is advised or recommended.

C1 or C2, cannot and should not be used just because the installation does not meet the current version of BS7671.

The example i use is RCD's. If the install has no RCD's, and it wasn't a requirement at the time the install was first commissioned, then there is no obligation to fit them now. If the installation met the standards required when it was first installed, it was safe then, and if the only thing wrong with it now, is that it doesn't comply with current regs, then there is nothing wrong with it, and it remains safe for continued use. You can only ADVISE improvement for things like installation of RCD's and use the code C3.

It is well explained in both BS7671, and GN3. You can't force change or opinions onto people. I am not trying to imply that you or anyone else is trying to do this, but when using these codings, they need to be fully understood, as we are giving an expert engineering view of the installation, so we need to adopt giving expert advice to keep the trade professional.

Cheers………….Howard

I do agree with this, I think he RCD issue is something that's always going to be up for debate. I generally feel pretty happy about my codings but there will be the odd thing that throws a spanner in the works.

There always going to be an element of user interpretation, so long as the more real dangers C1 are noted, that's more important than saying you have no RCD on your hedge trimmer, but equally all results hold be recorded with as higher degree of accuracy as possible with the knowledge and understanding available to the person doing the inspection.

 

[Engineer54]

Can't one of you very experienced electricians here, publish a comprehensive of example of code infractions?? It seems that the majority of threads on this forum relate to ''What code for this and what code for that'' Obviously the official type code guides, are woefully inadequate or anywhere near comprehensive enough.
Sometimes i wonder if those conducting these EICR's should actually be taking this sort of work on.

 

[uksparks]

Can't one of you very experienced electricians here, publish a comprehensive of example of code infractions?? It seems that the majority of threads on this forum relate to ''What code for this and what code for that'' Obviously the official type code guides, are woefully inadequate or anywhere near comprehensive enough.
Sometimes i wonder if those conducting these EICR's should actually be taking this sort of work on.

That's a good idea, there could be a book with every possible situation in and what code to give it, that way it would be clean cut and no argument as it says it in the book, ideally some kind of official book.

 

[AndyL]

Hi,


C2...Dead short on three out of five circuits between live and neutral, this is a potential fire hazard

How is this one possible, surely if they are "dead shorts" the protective devices have operated. Is it possible loads have been left connected?

 

[MDJ]

How is this one possible, surely if they are "dead shorts" the protective devices have operated. Is it possible loads have been left connected?

Very good point, to add if it is a dead short then the circuit cannot be energised surely so how can it be a fire hazard lol

 

[uksparks]

Well, the house was not that big and I went through very room and fitting, nothing was plugged in at all, no loads anywhere...

Any ideas then? It was giving me 0.00 on IR between phase and neutral on three of the circuits. Honestly, there was nothing connected at all, no bathroom fans or humidity things, no appliances on anywhere...

- - - Updated - - -

I accept what you are saying, but if there were no loads, can you explain it?