EICR remedial work

[Jaxo]

Have been handed a nice job today... remedial work in a failed EICR :-( ... just a few things on it are not necessarily things I would have included/ coded on the report if I had dont it myself :-?

Can not locate earth electrode so therefor cannot deem it to be safe C2 (... My reakoning is if you are getting a satisfactory earth fault loop reading and can confirm its not from gas/ water pipes etc then surely that has deemed it to be safe already),. whats others opinions on this? .. could be tape, plate etc and not necessarily a rod as such... In a terraced house with the front door opening onto the street .. I dont exactly want to start installing a new rod due to gas/ water pipes, and underground cables etc....


8.5 shower fused on 30A fuse... C1,.. yes technically thats about 36 amps but if its not blowing the fuse its not exactly dangerious... C3 IMO

RCD protection required on circuits 1,2,3,4 & 5 as there are pvc/pvc burried in walls less than 50mm deep C1... Again C3 imo.. The installation is only approx 10 years and wired to 16th spec...

Whats your opinions on these observations?

 

[telectrix]

agree with you. looks like the guy done the report was fishing for work. be concerned about the earthing though. make sure you get a Ze with all parallel paths dissed.

 

[tony mc]

Must say I agree with what your saying what is the RA on the results ?

 

[wozz]

1 yes I would want to see what is actually providing the earth for the installation. How is Ze being measured?

2 in reality will cause not a great deal of problems. Out of interest what type of fuse you on about?

3 erm this is a TT system isn't there a rcd already?

 

[Jaxo]

He`s got 0.31 Ω .... I`m Assuming he hasnt removed the main protective bonding conductors before carrying out this test .... or wondering if it even is a TT installation at all (All I have is the EICR and I`m due to start remedial work tomorrow)..

Another observation I have just noticed is "Earth connection required at hotpress as floating cables" C2 .. if I`m upgrading to 17th edition this will be irrelevent anyway

 

[telectrix]

possible it's been pme'd. check the Ze with MEC dissed. then you have a starting point.

 

[Jaxo]

1 yes I would want to see what is actually providing the earth for the installation. How is Ze being measured?

2 in reality will cause not a great deal of problems. Out of interest what type of fuse you on about?

3 erm this is a TT system isn't there a rcd already?

1/ Earth loop test

2/ its a 1361

3/ yes, its a TT system so there should be a 100mA RCD for fault protection... but he has on the report circuits need rcd as cables buried in walls less than 50mm...

 

[Jaxo]

possible it's been pme'd. check the Ze with MEC dissed. then you have a starting point.

I dont really know what im in for until tomorrow when I arrive at the job... hopefully it wont be as bad as it looks from this report

 

[telectrix]

if itg was installed prior to 2008, then there was no requirement for RCDs on buried cables.

 

[Jaxo]

Exactly mate... but he should have on the report that there is no 100mA RCD for fault protection,.. being a TT system (or is it :lol: ... I`ll know tomorrow )

 

[wozz]

Do you have results for a 100ma rcd? Or assuming theses one there??

are you actually doing the remedials tomorrow? Have you priced it?

 

[Jaxo]

from looking at current report it appears there is no 100mA RCD, havent priced it... will be an invoice on completion... its an odd set up tbh.. Tennents in the house left (and broke their tennancy) saying the house was unfit for living in due to damp and other things. They got local council / environmental health involved.. who went over every aspect of the whole house.. including some guy they they hired to test the wiring...

So the people testing the wiring are working for local council,.. and I`m working for the letting agent... Have a feeling the same people will be coming back to retest it...

 

[sparkymalarky]

Oh I'd love to know a lot of things about this thread!! lol! What council would this be bud?

So there is no RCD on the shower?

 

[Engineer54]

It's no good guessing at this stage, you need to see the installation in it's entirity, for you to make any sensible conclusions.

You may well have to replace the CU if this is a TT installation, and it has no RCD protection of any kind. But i find that hard to believe if this installation is only 10 years old, as it would have still required RCD protection, even going back to the 15th ed, or even the 14th come to that, even if it was an up front VOELCB!!

Having said that, it does sound like this installation has been PME'd, if it's giving a Ze of 0.32 ohms. You'dl be hard pressed to obtain that kind of value on a TT system, with the parallel earths still in place or not!! lol!!


Anyway, let us know what you eventually find at this job....

 

[Jaxo]

Ok, ... back with a bit of an update... There is acutally a 100mA RCD as the main switch on the board.. he just didnt bother to test it/ record result on the cert...

I manages to find the earth spike in about 30 seconds.. it was under the floor right at the consumer unit... it even had a trap cut for access....

Another thing Ive noticed is that it has an old style cut out... and it "appears" to be to be a TNS supply... Live to neutral Ra is 0.12 and live to earth (Casing of cut out) is 0.22... TBH Being young ...ish I dont see many of these types of cut outs but ones I have seen before usually have an adjustable earth clamp on the sheeth of the supply cable and the installation earthed from this... Will ring the DNO (NIE) in the morning and ask them to upgrade the cut out.. (I can actually see where the installation has been previously been earthed of the casing, but it appears whoever rewired the house has installed a spike and ignored the fact there is an earth supplied

more worryingly is something else I found... a BS1361 fuse with the tinfoil wrapped around it (and not a word about it on the report... nor that half the board blanks where missing and there was no cover on the busbar inside the board...At least he found a broken earth in a light switch in the bedroom... I`m sure it took longer to write this on the report than it did for me to fix ....

 

[davesparks]

Looks like you've got a proper lead cable gland on that cutout. So I see no reason not to lug an earth onto one of them bolts, subject to actually getting a proper look at it and confirming TNS with the DNO etc obviously

 

[Engineer54]

To be honest i can't make out whether you are testing Zs or Ze. One things for sure, you ain't getting a value of 0.32 ohm off of that earth rod, especially when the rod is within the boundary of the house and not in an external location... How about a photo of the DNO cut out and the installations MET??


The last thing you should see on a TN-S PILC cable sheath is an adjustable clamp (BS 951 or whatever it is). 9 out of 10 times, the connection will be via a sweated connection or lead wiped connection, the rest being by means of Hepworth clamp or a constant force spring clamp.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

see what kind of a Ze you get off that paper-lead....

are we talking about an old cast cutout here?

if so then the DNO have been on a replacement program with these....

get em out to see to it....you may get a distributers earthing out of it as well...

 

[Knobhead]

How about a photo of the DNO cut out and the installations MET??


The last thing you should see on a TN-S PILC cable sheath is an adjustable clamp (BS 951 or whatever it is). 9 out of 10 times, the connection will be via a sweated connection or lead wiped connection, the rest being by means of Hepworth clamp or a constant force spring clamp.

Photo would be good.

There’s no danger of damaging that cable. Its PILC SWA plumbed to a brass cone. God knows how old it is.

The cut off earth is in the best place to pick up the lead sheath and armours. There’s no risk of damage.

 

[davesparks]

So as mentioned just lug onto one of them there bolts.
Whatever they replace that cutout with won't be anywhere near as good quality!