Get 18th, Get testing and inspection, go to work?

[Julie.]

..
I think part of the apparent changes over the years have come from the gradual loss of apprenticeships as an entry in to a profession and towards collage/university education and exams ....

I think this, when I left school an apprenticeship was a good path to go, I started this, but did A levels in the evening, then university when it was considered that only the top 10% academically did so, just a few years later and anything other than university was worthless, and basically "the top 90% academically achieved the top 10% level"!!!

In addition though, the whole financial situation has changed, as i started work, you bought tooling etc to last 25+ years, you trained apprentices because they would be with the company for life (Most of the older guys had been with the company for 40-50 years); soon after the finance arrangements indicated that the investment must pay for itself within 3-5 years, well you cannot justify apprentices on that basis!

 

[nicebutdim]

I think that's a little unfair, I think we all go through that phase of learning a bit , perhaps comparing oneself to the worst of those around us, and believing we know more than we do.

It is the time and experience after this where we develop the real knowledge, at the initial stage, one doesn't see or understand this.

After all, when you pass your driving test at 17, you're the best driver in the world, better than any F1, or police advanced driver...

BTW, unless it's the photo I would be more concerned about "direct contact" with the mk outlet (with the clamp terminals)

Haven't got to the end of this thread yet, so this may have already been pointed out.

The OP isn't 17 years old but, like myself, has recently started an adult apprenticeship. We both have some prior knowledge of basic electrical principles and installation and we both have an awful lot to learn. I fully understnd the frustration of wanting to get on with things, but we all must learn to walk before we can run.

 

[nicebutdim]

At the end of the day you only ever really learn by doing so imo if you have your 2391 you're good to go.

Are you though?

In the case of inspections, you're being paid to assess the condition of an installation - how might one go about this if the intention is to learn as you go? Should the first fifty customers be offered a discounted rate as no guarantee can be given about the thoroughness of an inspection? What use is a report if no one can stand over its findings?

 

[Julie.]

Haven't got to the end of this thread yet, so this may have already been pointed out.

The OP isn't 17 years old but, like myself, has recently started an adult apprenticeship. We both have some prior knowledge of basic electrical principles and installation and we both have an awful lot to learn. I fully understnd the frustration of wanting to get on with things, but we all must learn to walk before we can run.

The new driver thing was merely an example for illustration, but this characteristic is something I see all the time, take for example scuba diving, I have lost count of the number of times I have been on a dive boat and it's the brand new diver with fewer than a handful of dives who thinks they know everything even telling those with thousands of dives, and many qualifications how to do things, most often these aren't youngsters either.

It isn't an age thing, it's a learning thing, when one learns something you feel like you now know everything as you have had a big jump in learning and knowledge, thinking there can't be much more to it; of course there is always so much more, whatever the subject.

 

[BiddeldyBwah]

Are you though?

In the case of inspections, you're being paid to assess the condition of an installation - how might one go about this if the intention is to learn as you go? Should the first fifty customers be offered a discounted rate as no guarantee can be given about the thoroughness of an inspection? What use is a report if no one can stand over its findings?

The intention is always to learn as you go, but others in here are saying competency isn't gained until several years of shadowing some other guy who has the same qualification as you.

I think that's nonsense for reasons i already outlined.

The qualification proves the competency otherwise you wouldn't pass it. Those who want to gate keep electrics think otherwise but that's fine because they only live on the internet.

 

[DPG]

The intention is always to learn as you go, but others in here are saying competency isn't gained until several years of shadowing some other guy who has the same qualification as you.

I think that's nonsense for reasons i already outlined.

The qualification proves the competency otherwise you wouldn't pass it. Those who want to gate keep electrics think otherwise but that's fine because they only live on the internet.

Qualifications do not prove competency. I'm pretty sure even you realise that experience of real life situations and installations is required before someone can be confident in producing a useful EICR.

I don't know why you keep asking for opinions on here - you seem very dismissive of most responses that you receive.

 

[timhoward]

The intention is always to learn as you go, but others in here are saying competency isn't gained until several years of shadowing some other guy who has the same qualification as you.

I think that's nonsense for reasons i already outlined.

I actually think it's common sense.
Learn to install stuff, learn to do initial verification, happy days you have learned to T&I your own work.
But until you have been exposed to the fair spectrum of installations, how other people work, with some understanding of previous regulations, you logically can't instantly be an expert at periodic inspection.

The qualification proves the competency otherwise you wouldn't pass it. Those who want to gate keep electrics think otherwise but that's fine because they only live on the internet.

I think you're being a bit unfair here - you ask questions, you get answers. There's a large variety of folk on here from trainee, apprentices, active sparks young and old, and retired. I do guarantee that some of them are willing to give up their time to constructively help you on your journey though.

because they seem to get offended by anyone who thinks you don't really need 7 years of hands-on experience post-qualification to be worth a damn.

I actually have some level of agreement with you here; but please don't let your attitude stand in the way of sensible debate about it. I would say it's more like a couple of years, and if you initially stick to domestic and certain common property types and are a fast learner maybe even less. Hang in there!

 

[westward10]

@BiddeldyBwah I have removed some of your latter posts as they were totally unacceptable and if you continue in a similar vain this thread will be gone.

 

[DPG]

@BiddeldyBwah I have removed some of your latter posts as they were totally unacceptable and if you continue in a similar vain this thread will be gone.

He'll need a 4th user name at this rate

 

[Dave OCD]

There's definitely a Countrywide issue of very poor and unfit for purpose EICRs being carried out , and it's worrying.
I've personally seen many and would estimate maybe 2 or 3 out of 10 to be good and thorough reports with detailed results and sensible coding. And I've also seen a report for an installation with an up front and non operational voltage trip [TT] given a Satisfactory assessment as well as an old but sound installation utilising imperial stranded tinned copper cables being classed as Unsatisfactory with 'urgent rewire required' due to 'Aluminium' cables....
Just two examples but it's disheartening and quite frustrating that these people are 'earning' good money for doing something that turns out misleading,potentially dangerous and of no benefit at all. In fact I'd say the average workmanship standards in all trades has nosedived over the last 20 years or so. It's like a complete change in attitude and approach with easy money being the only motivation. Of course there are still many excellent tradespeople out there , but I feel they're the minority now.