Get 18th, Get testing and inspection, go to work?

[nicebutdim]

The intention is always to learn as you go, but others in here are saying competency isn't gained until several years of shadowing some other guy who has the same qualification as you.

I think that's nonsense for reasons i already outlined.

The qualification proves the competency otherwise you wouldn't pass it. Those who want to gate keep electrics think otherwise but that's fine because they only live on the internet.

When you pass an English GCSE, you know everything necessary to teach to that level. Somehow I don't imagine schools will employ new teachers on that basis.

The point I was trying to make about inpections is even simpler - installations will contain all manner of weird and wonderful oddities that you've never seen before, much less understood. Would your intention be to code conservatively, thus potentially causing unnecessary expense for the customer, or to adopt a much less cautious approach and leave potentially dangerous situations in your wake.

The bottom line is fairly simple - once the required criteria is met, people are free to undertake work as they please. If they're happy to risk their reputation, or possibly freedom, then that is their perogative. I don't like starting anything without being fairly certain I have the competence to successfully complete it, but everyone is different.

 

[Zerax]

I think a lot of the problem these days is that some of the younger end seem to want to just pass a couple of exams and get straight into tasks which would traditionally require experience.

What happened to starting with the basic stuff and building your experience?

As I say, it's probably a small amount of people, but it seems to be increasing. Not just in electrical jobs, but everything.

It's all part of the 'entitlement' culture that was officially introduced about 20 years ago... kids have been taught that they are all 'entitled' to everything without the need to 'earn' it... whether through hard work, technical study or learning on the job etc etc. Hence we have zillions of youngsters with degrees... who think they are 'entitled' to a highly paid job !

It's not just with work either... it's in all aspects of modern life. E.g. legally we are all 'entitled' to do what we want as long as there's no law against it... so things like consideration for others or common sense have also been abandoned.

 

[Zerax]

...In fact I'd say the average workmanship standards in all trades has nosedived over the last 20 years or so.

I agree... and I think a major contributor to this is the qualification/certificate culture. The focus has moved away from having a safe, properly installed and maintained installation to having a certificate ! As long has you have that certificate you're safe ! Crazy

 

[Diddy]

In fact I'd say the average workmanship standards in all trades has nosedived over the last 20 years or so.

I despise this sweeping type of comment. I mean I served my time well within your "good days range" eg much more than 20 years ago.
But - The type of post and statements such as not as skilled/competent/up to standard as they used to be ? Does that mean that all of us who passed our apprenticeships in the 70's and onwards are ---- teachers ? Or are we all of a sudden bringing up our kids to be stupid ?
It's not a zero sum game this point im making, If all the kids coming through trades are not up to standard then who the hell is teaching them ? Who is bringing them up ? Who is making them entitled ?
Might be bigging myself up a tad but thinking back I have had maybe 10 apprentices that I taught from start to finish all of them passed their respective trade tests and completed full apprenticeships ? Does that mean im some sort of god tradesman who can impart knowledge onto pimply teenagers where the rest of the country according to some/many cant ? I don't think it does to be honest.
Too many tradesmen give it "kids these days" "I haven't got the time too...." not like the sparks who taught me who obviously had all the time in the world to get the job done while taking the time to show us how and why.

As for the thread itself ? Obviously testing and inspection is rocket science and not one person would be able to spot the issues with the pictured socket or the poor resistance in the other example listed....OR it could actually just be basic stuff ?

@OP If you do a decent apprenticeship with someone who has at least half an intention of teaching you and on top of that you pass your 2391 and/or whatever other requirement is in place that particular year then you can test and inspect to a reasonable quality.
If you are new you will be slower, but if you are on a fixed price then nobody dies, nobody loses anything. As with anything in life the more you do it the more experience you pick up. Good luck charging much extra for that experience from your typical customer who wants and EICR, Although if you work for a company you might just earn yourself an extra 10p per hour.

 

[Dave OCD]

We all have different opinions, mine are just based on personal experiences and observations.
I can't please everybody. Maybe some of the issues come from a mass inability to properly focus and concentrate on the task in hand due to a mindless obsession with Social Media and the overwhelming compulsion to constantly check mobile phones, who knows.

 

[Diddy]

We all have different opinions, mine are just based on personal experiences and observations.
I can't please everybody. Maybe some of the issues come from a mass inability to properly focus and concentrate on the task in hand due to a mindless obsession with Social Media and the overwhelming compulsion to constantly check mobile phones, who knows.

So you having issues with apprentices not putting their phone down ? Hmm mines are always too busy in work time. There is NEVER nothing to do...Day 1 week 1.
BTW I am not having a go at YOU as a spark or teacher in your own right. The line you quoted along with the response must be the most often quoted statement concerning apprentices. I must have been very "lucky" with my pupils, All 10 completed their apprenticeship within the recognised time scale with no resits for anything practical nor indeed anything related to fault finding (AM2 and in college testing) - IF they had a question id answer it with my own..get em thinking. Make them feel valued but firm and fair. They all knew there were lines in the sand. Been to 5 weddings on the back of them lads....the other 5 ? Well who knows lol.

Anyway sorry and merry xmas and happy new year. It's obviously a bit of a bug bear of mine..I get that. I recall a distant time when I was the 16yo being told kids these days "we had to walk 10 miles to work with 2 drums of lead sheaved cable under our arms". In the end these kids are what WE produced and any shortcomings surely must sadly reflect on us as a generation not imparting the basics for these kids to build on.
Roll on the wireless sockets.

 

[Dave OCD]

No apologies needed, as I said we all have our own views. As for phones I'm lucky as I only have my 22 year old son working with me who also did his apprenticeship with me. He loves his work and only has a look at his phone at lunch time - and that's generally football related stuff. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you too.

 

[Diddy]

For the sake of completeness one of my lads passed all his stuff, Done sparking for a year and then went on to become a bespoke conservatory installer. I think he does the electrical side himself but still...Maybe I put him off lol. Take care guys have a great next year.

 

[nicebutdim]

IF they had a question id answer it with my own..get em thinking.

By far the best way of teaching anything.

 

[Des 56]

Pardon me if this may have been stated previously, have not read whole of thread
Taking and passing the 2391 and 18th then doing test and inspection without being taught installation ?

Here is what can be found in Guidance note 3 regards the inspector

The inspector must have a sound knowledge and experience relevant to the nature of the installation being inspected and tested

That sentence above on its own seems to cover what the post author asked in his original question
Of course you must have experience, but unlike myself most on here are not going to have experience say of installations from the early seventies

If you lack historical experience on a installation, then make enquiry and find out
Anyone new to test and inspect can do little more
You can't become experienced at anything unless you are first inexperienced and either taught or self taught in order to gain the experience