Have the rules for ring mains changed over the years?

[davesparks]

I think trades should be identified by hair colour, blue for electricians

At least I've managed to get that bit right!

 

[davesparks]

Cable that size… is it not written on the insulation somewhere?

Possibly, but there is only a very short bit visible until I can actually do the shutdown.

 

[westward10]

Looks bluer than previously Dave.

 

[nicebutdim]

At least I've managed to get that bit right!

View attachment 109564

AWG40 if I remember colour codes correctly?

 

[7029 dave]

Overseas electrical installation methods, materials, accessories, regulations etc have no relevance here in the UK, so dont understand why the heated debate.
I suggest go and work over in France or other parts of Europe if our system is so bad and a horror show.

 

[mainline]

At least I've managed to get that bit right!

View attachment 109564

He's not a real electrician, not without a CPS logo

 

[mainline]

Overseas electrical installation methods, materials, accessories, regulations etc have no relevance here in the UK, so dont understand why the heated debate.
I suggest go and work over in France or other parts of Europe if our system is so bad and a horror show.

He has to stay here to help sort it.

 

[mainline]

I think trades should be identified by hair colour, blue for electricians

I'm waiting for baldelectrician to pop up, asking what's he to do.

 

[7029 dave]

I'm waiting for baldelectrician to pop up, asking what's he to do.

Like most of us wear a wig lol

 

[nicebutdim]

I'm waiting for baldelectrician to pop up, asking what's he to do.

Everything is on course for me to request a name change to baldapprentice.

 

[narkedatninety]

"pre-sleeved earth (sic) wires"

Adding an insulated layer to a dead conductor who's sole purpose is to detect a breach of the dielectric barrier within the run of cable is nonsensical from a safety perspective let alone an additional increased cost. Hence, there is a very good reason why we do not sleeve the CPC throughout the entire cable.

 

[rewireIT]

Adding an insulated layer to a dead conductor who's sole purpose is to detect a breach of the dielectric barrier within the run of cable is nonsensical from a safety perspective let alone an additional increased cost. Hence, there is a very good reason why we do not sleeve the CPC throughout the entire cable.

So flex is dangerous? Not sure the cpc 'detects' anything.

 

[mainline]

Adding an insulated layer to a dead conductor who's sole purpose is to detect a breach of the dielectric barrier within the run of cable is nonsensical from a safety perspective.

The cpc is used to carry fault current, which may be to do with an appliance and not the cable's insulation.

 

[rewireIT]

The mindset of 'the way we do it is the only right way and literally the entirety of the rest of the world is wrong' is very strange.

 

[davesparks]

The mindset of 'the way we do it is the only right way and literally the entirety of the rest of the world is wrong' is very strange.

Nobody has said that the rest of the world is wrong!

You're the only person who displayed such a narrow mindset.

 

[rewireIT]

Nobody has said that the rest of the world is wrong!

You're the only person who displayed such a narrow mindset.

I don't think stating that the rest of the world gets by just fine without rings and therefore proves they're unnecessary, is really a mindset at all, just a fact.

I put one in today that's got 4 sockets going on. Again running only a TV and the occasional hoover. Every spark from another country would laugh at that design choice.

 

[pc1966]

I don't think stating that the rest of the world gets by just fine without rings and therefore proves they're unnecessary, is really a mindset at all, just a fact.

The rest of the world does not use fused plugs. Once you understand what that implies you will see why a 32A feed can be used in the UK and not for general sockets elsewhere. And from that point you can grasp why the RFC is an elegant solution for typical use over, say, a 32A radial.

Remember the UK used to have unfused plugs to BS546, commonly in 5A and 15A, on radial circuits only. Post WW2 we moved to 13A fused plugs and the RFC to make it more efficient. Those plugs are not seen much now (sometimes 5A for switched light sockets) in the UK, but are still the standard in India and a few former colonies of the UK.

I put one in today that's got 4 sockets going on. Again running only a TV and the occasional hoover. Every spark from another country would laugh at that design choice.

For a few sockets in one place it is not a sensible choice.

For a whole floor's worth of sockets it is.

Did you read the comparison thread I suggested earlier? All of these things are covered in some technical detail.

As far as EU versus UK versus USA they all have good and bad points on both design aspects and on an installation aspects. But there is always a reason for those choices. To simple dismiss something you are not familiar with while not studying the reasons behind there development is not a good way to learn.

 

[davesparks]

I put one in today that's got 4 sockets going on. Again running only a TV and the occasional hoover. Every spark from another country would laugh at that design choice.

A lot of electricians in this country would also laugh at that design choice. Why did you choose a ring circuit over a radial for that?

You installing a ring unnecessarily does not mean that there is anything wrong with ring circuits, it just proves that you have installed one unnecessarily.

 

[rewireIT]

Why did you choose a ring circuit over a radial for that?

I didn't. The designer did.

You installing a ring unnecessarily does not mean that there is anything wrong with ring circuits, it just proves that you have installed one unnecessarily.

It proves i've installed one to the designer's spec. I'm not allowed to just ignore drawings and do what i like.

And that's the problem - even those with qualifications to design installations are still stuck on this idea that all power has to be on rings. I've never been on a site in the UK where a radial has been used for power outlets, it's always rings.

 

[rewireIT]

The rest of the world does not use fused plugs. Once you understand what that implies you will see why a 32A feed can be used in the UK and not for general sockets elsewhere.

That's fine but i wasn't arguing that RoW uses radials because they can't use rings; more that the fact they don't use them proves they're not needed to install perfectly safe and operational installations. Rings are simply unnecessary.

I also think it's preferable to have different rooms or different sections of the home on different breakers. We're encouraged to split between floor levels but imo splitting between sections or rooms is much more preferable.