Have the rules for ring mains changed over the years?

[rewireIT]

Sure, what I actually had in mind was if there was only a 4 way rewireable Wylex there in the first place the space for a replacement can be limited (if of course the replacement occupies the same spot)


In a small house where the kitchen is the utility room, you might have a dishwasher, washing machine and tumble drier all on together for over an hour. Ironing the previous load while the next one is washing and drying. A cuppa, kippers on toast. It's not a given that a 20A circuit won't get a little warm!
I don't disagree that other designs work, and multiple radials is certainly possible, but it is a convenient and resilient circuit for variable loads.

Aside from their ability to 'just get on with' periods of heavy use, they are probably the circuit that it is easiest to prove is in an excellent condition and discover modifications via the extensive tests that are possible.

To clarify, I don't think anyone is saying that we can't possibly do without them. It's about whether there are benefits to choosing to use them.

I much prefer how they do it in France, their electrics are much nicer. Their CU's are nicer too, good old double storey jobby.

 

[davesparks]

No because that is a stupid argument.

Europe not having rings despite their rules being made up by dozens of countries of expert bodies proves we don't need rings. End of story.

And our rules were also made by experts, experts who created what is widely regarded as the best designed and safest general use plug and socket system.

The ring circuit was developed due to a particular set of circumstances in this country and if they had occurred in other countries they would likely have adopted the ring circuit too.

 

[rewireIT]

And our rules were also made by experts, experts who created what is widely regarded as the best designed and safest general use plug and socket system.

By those in Britain.

 

[timhoward]

I much prefer how they do it in France, their electrics are much nicer. Their CU's are nicer too, good old double storey jobby.

I do like French CU's. Let's agree on that!

 

[rewireIT]

I do like French CU's. Let's agree on that!

They're mint. Nice little plastic stop screws that turn for a snug fit, wago'd earth bars, double pole breakers, main switch at origin of supply, and miles more circuits to put in meaning more money.

What's not to love.

 

[littlespark]

I do like French CU's. Let's agree on that!

I like their toast….. and their onion soup.

 

[nicebutdim]

Their version of electrocution is to die for.

 

[davesparks]

By those in Britain.

Not just in Britain, as far as I know they are regarded that way in many places.

Are you aware of a better general use system?

 

[mainline]

Sure, what I actually had in mind was if there was only a 4 way rewireable Wylex there in the first place the space for a replacement can be limited (if of course the replacement occupies the same spot)

I wouldn't be adding more circuits to a re wireable Cu.

In a small house where the kitchen is the utility room, you might have a dishwasher, washing machine and tumble drier all on together for over an hour. Ironing the previous load while the next one is washing and drying. A cuppa, kippers on toast. It's not a given that a 20A circuit won't get a little warm!

Having all those appliances on one circuit is wrong anyway, whether it be a ring or radial.

I don't disagree that other designs work, and multiple radials is certainly possible

Possible ? Radials are the most common circuit in use and installed.

it is a convenient and resilient circuit for variable loads.

So is a radial

Aside from their ability to 'just get on with' periods of heavy use, they are probably the circuit that it is easiest to prove is in an excellent condition and discover modifications via the extensive tests that are possible.

Prove is a bit of a strong word ?
You can't prove any circuit is in excellent condition just using an MFT.

To clarify, I don't think anyone is saying that we can't possibly do without them. It's about whether there are benefits to choosing to use them.

There are benefits to using a Ring final, there are also benefits using a horse and cart compared to a van.

 

[davesparks]

I much prefer how they do it in France, their electrics are much nicer. Their CU's are nicer too, good old double storey jobby.

In what way are the electrics nicer?

And what makes their CUs so much better?

 

[nicebutdim]

In what way are the electrics nicer?

And what makes their CUs so much better?

Plastic quarter turn screws that become brittle and break, use of screwdriver reduced by 1/3, DP breakers that take up twice as much space and not much else, other than more money to be made if longer jobs are deemed better than getting finished and moving on to the next.

Apparently.

 

[davesparks]

Plastic quarter turn screws that become brittle and break,

Like we used to have in plastic CUs, the ones that end up all chewed up and one side never catches properly?

 

[nicebutdim]

Like we used to have in plastic CUs, the ones that end up all chewed up and one side never catches properly?

The very same.

Came across a surprisingly reasonable condition Hager example yesterday.

 

[7029 dave]

I like their toast….. and their onion soup.

They bake their bread in such a naughty shape

 

[rewireIT]

In what way are the electrics nicer?

And what makes their CUs so much better?

More room in the CU to work, wago'd earth bar, double pole breakers, no dreadful flat profile cable, more appliances on separate circuits giving better selectivity, main switch provided on incoming head as standard, pre-sleeved earth wires, pre-wired conduit, better selection of fittings (especially for lights), better light switch rocker size, no ring final's, better looking plugs, variable supply (bringing it down brings standing charge down), colour coded cable so you can see on sight what size it is....

Just obviously better than the horror show here in the UK.

Wait until you see how they slate roofs. Although i'm sure someone will try to say pinning with nails like we do is best.

 

[mainline]

More room in the CU to work, wago'd earth bar, double pole breakers, no dreadful flat profile cable, more appliances on separate circuits giving better selectivity, main switch provided on incoming head as standard, pre-sleeved earth wires, pre-wired conduit, better selection of fittings (especially for lights), better light switch rocker size, no ring final's, better looking plugs, variable supply (bringing it down brings standing charge down), colour coded cable so you can see on sight what size it is....

Just obviously better than the horror show here in the UK.

Wait until you see how they slate roofs. Although i'm sure someone will try to say pinning with nails like we do is best.

Yeah but what makes them nicer lol.

 

[littlespark]

no dreadful flat profile cable

So good old 6242Y doesn't float your boat, either, huh?

 

[rewireIT]

So good old 6242Y doesn't float your boat, either, huh?

No it's awful.

 

[Pretty Mouth]

Wait until you see how they slate roofs. Although i'm sure someone will try to say pinning with nails like we do is best.

I'm curious now. Slate slate or tiles slate?

 

[davesparks]

More room in the CU to work,

As long as you choose the right CU then there's not much issue with ours.

wago'd earth bar,

Interesting, that sounds like a good idea, do you have an example of this?

double pole breakers,

Yes because they require them for safety on their single phase circuits, our single phase supplies/circuits are safe with DP MCB's. DP MCB's and DBs are available in the UK when they are required.

no dreadful flat profile cable,

Whats wrong with flat profile cable?

more appliances on separate circuits giving better selectivity,

I'm not sure how this affects selectivity?

main switch provided on incoming head as standard,

Interesting, I'm aware of the need for an RCD/RCBO at the supply head due to their common earthing systems and restricted current supplies.
Supply isolators are becoming common here for small supplies and I agree that it's is a good thing that we should have been doing years ago.

pre-sleeved earth wires,

Why does that matter?

pre-wired conduit

Whats that look like? Doesn't that defeat the object of having conduit in the first place?
Surely a pre-wired conduit is just a cable?

, better selection of fittings (especially for lights),

OK, but that's personal choice and I can't say I've ever had an issue with the available selection of light fittings in this country.
Is there a particular type of light fitting you feel is missing from this country?

better light switch rocker size

If you want bigger switch rockers you can get them in this country.

This is really starting to sound like you are clutching at straws.

, no ring final's,

Why is that better? It's just a different way of doing things.

better looking plugs,

Really? That's such a subjective thing and really not important is it?
Why does the look of the plug matter?

variable supply (bringing it down brings standing charge down),

Does it, or rather, would it?
I doubt standing charges would go down if you introduced that as the cost of altering so many supllies would be phenomenal.

colour coded cable so you can see on sight what size it is....

I hadn't realised that idea had spread to mainland Europe, I thought it was only in the USA that domestic electricians needed colour coded cables to be able to identify their size!

Do you have any examples? Ive not studied electrical installations in mainland Europe but from what I have seen I thought most of their cable was plain white.

Just obviously better than the horror show here in the UK.

I really don't see how you can describe UK electrical installations as a horror show.