Help 2 way switching ?

[Paul N]

Dear All,
I was helping a friend to fit a new French window lock when she showed me her crazy downstairs lighting - she has just moved into the house which was built in the 1970's and there are lots of things wrong with it. Is there a quick fix for the following:

Please see the Pdf : there is a 2 gang switch (A on the pdf) which when operated ALONE operates a ceiling spotlight On and Off (1st gang) when operated Alone the 2nd Gang A works the uplighter On and Off.

There is a three gang switch (B on pdf) on the opposite side of the room which: 1st Gang B is linked to both Gangs in A and produces the following:
If 1st Gang A is ON (spotlight) then 1st Gang B Will switch OFF the spotlight but NOT switch it ON
If 1st and 2nd Gang A are On then 1st Gang B will switch the spotlight On and OFF
If 2nd Gang A is On (Uplighters On) then 1st Gang B switches Uplighters off
If 1st and 2nd Gang A are ON (both spotlight and uplighter) 1st gang B will flick between switching the Spotlight and Uplighters ON and OFF !!
If 1st Gang A (spotlight is OFF) and 1st Gang B is used to switch Uplighters ON then 2nd Gang A ( the control for uplighter) will NOT switch the Uplighters OFF.

I am attaching pictures of the wiring behind A and B

The three Gang B switch should allegedly operate as a two way switch for the Uplighters and Spotlight and a two way switch for the landing light upstairs. The middle switch appears to just feed a lonely single uplighter - which can't be right either ?

The 2 Gang switch is marked A$A and MKD on the rear and the 3 Gang switch I can't find a make for.

Any suggestions would be gratefully received.

 

[littlespark]

Best thing is to get someone in with the righ test equipment and work out what goes where.

There’s so many ways to wire switches that any of our suggestions from afar would be just guesswork and you’de end up in a worse situation with nothing working.

I don’t know if any forum members are local to you (Doncaster?) that could help out for a bottle of whisky and a chocolate egg or two

 

[Deleted account]

Not too bothered about the chocolate eggs. But the whiskey......

 

[Paul N]

Thank you very much for your quick response - an electrician will be needed anyway to replace sockets in the kitchen which have been grouted into place and then sprayed black which has led to the cooker isolated switch and another socket being stuck in the On position so no isolation !!! Jack built it but Jackie is living in it !!!

 

[littlespark]

“Just moved in” ??

Is she renting or has she bought this place?

Seems like a nice doey uppy type property

 

[Paul N]

Bought it !!

 

[Lucien Nunes]

It seems that (at least) the strappers interconnecting switches A and B have got muddled up. There is definitely a mistake at switch A because if both gangs are supposed to be 2-way, there should be a wire (probably a black) in B2. But that is not the only problem; there may be two or three others. As @littlespark points out, there are so many possible permutations that it is hard to advise from here. This is partly due to the strappers being wired with red/black cable rather than red/yellow/blue, making it impossible to distinguish them from the feeds and switch legs by the core colours.

As the lights of another floor are supposed to be present at switch B, there is a safety implication of multiple circuits possibly being interconnected that could get you into deeper trouble. What might look like a simple un-crossing might leave a spurious cross-connection that could at a later date result in a point being live after the normal steps were taken to isolate it for maintenance.

Sorry - normally I like unravelling mysteries from described symptoms but I think this one has too many unknowns.

 

[Paul N]

Hi Lucien,

Thank you very much for your reply.

I was also thinking the same as you re the radials from the upstairs circuit now being connected to the downstairs circuit because of the crossover at B.

I will do as you advise and get a professional in to unravel it all.

Thank you once again.

Paul