help regarding radial circuits

[demkap]

Hi all,

Today i found 2 radial circuits in a 32amp mcb breaker, would you give it a code c1 or c2 on a eic report?

Also what are the main dangers of having these together?

Cheers
Dem

 

[trev]

Depends on the csa of the cables and the purpose of the circuits. Were they meant to be 2 radials or has it been an RFC at some time in the past?

 

[demkap]

they are wired in 2.5 and its a one bed flat. 2 radials in a 32amp breaker, when split one supplies kitchen and the other the rest of property. so id split them and put the in a 20amp breaker each, just wonder what code... and what dangers i could state?

 

[Andy78]

What do you think the potential dangers are ?

 

[trev]

What do you think the potential dangers are ?

None at all because 16 amps will flow down each 2.5 and the ccc for one is 27A so jobs a goodun.
Do I win a prize?

 

[demkap]

surely its a c2? its cross connected?

 

[Andy78]

None at all because 16 amps will flow down each 2.5 and the ccc for one is 27A so jobs a goodun.
Do I win a prize?

You win a white card with "Proper electric man" printed on it

 

[demkap]

you win a prize if you help me haha

 

[Andy78]

surely its a c2? its cross connected?

What dangers could occur with the circuit in it's current state ?

 

[trev]

You win a white card with "Proper electric man" printed on it

GET IN! Finally, parity with a Electrical Trainee!
Oh erm, hang on...........

 

[BES]

What testing did you do to prove it is two radials and not a broken rfc.

 

[highspark]

What testing did you do to prove it is two radials and not a broken rfc.

Bingo, first thing I would have looked for.

 

[demkap]

i always thought if a circuit was cross connected it was a c2

 

[BES]

If youve done no testing and have put two legs of a rfc into two seperate mcbs you could have two points of isolation.

 

[trev]

You haven't proven anything mate, as I said in #2 and as has been said subsequently, has this always been 2 radials or is it a broken RFC?
You should at the very least have stated what the label on the front of the CU said was the intention of the circuit.

 

[demkap]

it wasnt even labelled as a whole on there, but on that one it said sockets. i tried to do end to end on them and got nothing.. then i separated them and did a r1+r2 individually and i got my readings to prove they are radials.. i just wanna know what code to put down as i know that they need to be 20amp breakers not 32amp

 

[trev]

Did you look at the neutral bar? Did the corresponding terminal have 2 cables in it?
Same question applies to the earth bar.
Did you do any testing? If so, what were your results?
If you're carrying out EICRs you can't allow knee jerk reactions to cloud your judgment. You inspect, you test, you report based on the regs.

 

[trev]

it wasnt even labelled as a whole on there, but on that one it said sockets. i tried to do end to end on them and got nothing.. then i separated them and did a r1+r2 individually and i got my readings to prove they are radials.. i just wanna know what code to put down as i know that they need to be 20amp breakers not 32amp

So did you go to every point on these "radials" and take the r1r2

 

[demkap]

yes i did go to every point... i proved it was a radial. i just wanna know what code it is? if you dont wanna give me helpful advise then dont bother.

 

[trev]

Sometimes in order to give meaningful advice you have to ask questions mate.
Give it a C1 because it's obviously horrendously dangerous or don't give it a code at all because you "put it right"
I'm out.

 

[demkap]

314-01-04 Where an installation comprises more than one final circuit, each final circuit shall be connected to a
separate way in a distribution board. The wiring of each final circuit shall be electrically separate from that of every
other final circuit, so as to prevent the indirect energising of a final circuit intended to be isolated.

Each socket in this case is considered as a final sub circuit so no it dose not comply to BS7671

 

[Guest77]

You win a white card with "Proper electric man" printed on it

You mean essential electric lol

 

[demkap]

cheers trev sorry it just felt like you were trying to state im not testing correctly

 

[Guest77]

yes i did go to every point... i proved it was a radial. i just wanna know what code it is? if you dont wanna give me helpful advise then dont bother.

A no code

 

[cprfenom]

cheers trev sorry it just felt like you were trying to state im not testing correctly

It does feel like asking a question on here just gets you abuse, but it does seem that trev is one of the nicer people on the forums.

Besides testing the end to ends on L,N,E and you also tried to establish where the end of the radial is and confirm that there is only one set of cables and that its not just a lost connection?
If you're happy your testing and enquiries then really its up to you what you decide on? You have the option if remaking the ring and keeping it on a 30/32amp breaker depending on the board.

 

[Richard Burns]

If you have a 2.5mm² cable protected by a 32A breaker then the cable could overheat if the full current were taken, therefore the is a danger in the design of the circuit, however the actual use of the circuit probably means there is low likelihood of the full current being taken I would tend toward C2 as there is not immediate danger but it would not require a fault to be dangerous.
However it would be critical to ensure that there is not just a loose cable in the back of one of the sockets that has not been connected to complete the ring.

 

[shanky887614]

c2 with recomendation to swap to 20amp job done

 

[Geordie Spark]

None at all because 16 amps will flow down each 2.5 and the ccc for one is 27A so jobs a goodun.
Do I win a prize?

One borrel o dog and a conducted tour around Tidyboiler's lingerie drawer.

 

[Octopus]

c2 with recomendation to swap to 20amp job done

C2 with a recommendation for 2 x 20A breakers if theres space in the board

 

[Eddiesparks]

put them on a 6a and have done with it

 

[tidyboiler]

One borrel o dog and a conducted tour around Tidyboiler's lingerie drawer.

Ah, so that's where they went!!!!! :56::smilewinkgrin:

 

[dingledong]

Code 2 I agree

 

[shanky887614]

Code 2 I agree

I think geordie is in code 1!!! lol

 

[dingledong]

Trevor can I ask a question the op has 48 posts so I assume he is an electrician and your giving him a hard time I thought !!
Others on here have 2 posts say they are sparks and your telling them how to kill themselves cos they haven't a clue
Why is this
Not trying to be horrible just asking

 

[shanky887614]

Trevor can I ask a question the op has 48 posts so I assume he is an electrician and your giving him a hard time I thought !!
Others on here have 2 posts say they are sparks and your telling them how to kill themselves cos they haven't a clue
Why is this
Not trying to be horrible just asking

the gene pool needs a little chlorine, he is mearly helping those beyond help from time to time lol

jk of course I would never mean such a thing honest

 

[trev]

Trevor can I ask a question the op has 48 posts so I assume he is an electrician and your giving him a hard time I thought !!
Others on here have 2 posts say they are sparks and your telling them how to kill themselves cos they haven't a clue
Why is this
Not trying to be horrible just asking

It was never my intention to give the OP a hard time. I was trying to find out exactly what he had done as far as these 2 radials were concerned. I apologise to him if that's the way it came over.

The others you refer to is only one if truth be known and I explained myself on that thread but since you appear to have missed it here it is again. On that thread the job had already been done by the DIYer, had he asked how to do it he would have received the stock answer of "get an electrician" but he didn't do that, he was asking about a matter arising from it which is a completely different thing. However, if you remember, when he said he was sure it would be alright I asked him a few technical questions which I knew he had no chance of answering. I did this to point out to him that he did not have the ability or the tools to make that call.

I'm not the kind of person who washes dirty laundry in public so if you ever want to question me about my posts would you mind doing it by PM. You should know by now that I don't bite unless I'm provoked

 

[Simonslimline]

Trevor can I ask a question the op has 48 posts so I assume he is an electrician and your giving him a hard time I thought !!
Others on here have 2 posts say they are sparks and your telling them how to kill themselves cos they haven't a clue
Why is this
Not trying to be horrible just asking

To be honest if the guy is carrying out condition reports he should not need to be asking such a basic question IMO

 

[trev]

To be honest if the guy is carrying out condition reports he should not need to be asking such a basic question IMO

The reason I was asking what I did.

 

[7029 dave]

Depends on the csa of the cables, if below 4mm not good. code 2 at least imo.

 

[Geordie Spark]

The reason I was asking what I did.

What did you did??