Help with summer house supply

[AD23]

Hi all

I've agreed to help a relative supply power to his summer house and wanted to run my plan by you and ask for any advice you might have. I'll give you as much detail as possible - some might even be irrelevant.

-My uncle requires three double sockets in the summer house with a view to running two lamps, a laptop and printer, and on occasions a 2kw plug in heater

-The summer house is located 15metres from the back of the house

-The house is terraced meaning any supply will have to run through the house however the flooring is all parquet which my uncle is reluctant to lift

-The house currently has no RCD protection

-My plan is to spur from a socket in the back room to a 13A RCD Fused Connection Unit, go through the wall to a junction box, run 3core SWA cable (using 3rd core as a CPC) along a pre installed conduit that runs underground from the back of the house to the summer house, terminate the swa in a junction box inside the summer house, run twin and earth out to the sockets in series.

My main questions are:

-What size cabling should I use? (I figured 4mm SWA and 2.5mm T&E but wasn't sure about factors such as volt drop)

-Do I need any additional circuit protection inside the summer house?

-Is it acceptable to use the 3rd core of the SWA as a cpc rather than the armour?

-Seeing as taking the supply directly from the consmer unit has been ruled out, are there any better/safer/easier options to spurring?

Any advice you can offer would be greatly appreciated - thanks

 

[DPG]

Ami I right in saying this is a sub-main to a seperate building, so would need a an isolator in the sumer house? Daz

 

[Former Sponsor TM]

Hi AD23, why don't you post your location and I'm sure one of the guys on the forum would be happy to come and look at the work at your Uncles with you? That way you know you're in safe hands, and also due to the nature of this work, it would also need registering and certifying, too.

 

[AD23]

Hi AD23, why don't you post your location and I'm sure one of the guys on the forum would be happy to come and look at the work at your Uncles with you? That way you know you're in safe hands, and also due to the nature of this work, it would also need registering and certifying, too.

If someone's happy to do that then that would be fantastic, I'm not sure if my uncle would be willing to pay the going rate though - hence why he'd doing it himself!
With regards to certifying the work, what exactly needs doing legally? I'm sure you need relevant certificates when selling the house, but when I mentioned that he simply said he doesn't plan to sell up for 20 plus years so will deal with that later. If he goes ahead and does the work himself (which knowing him I'm afraid he will) would he be breaking the law?

 

[brman]

If someone's happy to do that then that would be fantastic, I'm not sure if my uncle would be willing to pay the going rate though - hence why he'd doing it himself!
With regards to certifying the work, what exactly needs doing legally? I'm sure you need relevant certificates when selling the house, but when I mentioned that he simply said he doesn't plan to sell up for 20 plus years so will deal with that later. If he goes ahead and does the work himself (which knowing him I'm afraid he will) would he be breaking the law?

Yes. Building regulations Part P make this a notifiable job. You either do it yourself by paying building control or pay a electrician to do it.

 

[Spoon]

Hi AD23, where about do you live?

There are lots of info on this site about Part P, just have a search.

"Failure to comply with the Building Regulations is a criminal offence and the local authorities have the power to require the removal or alteration of work that does not comply with the requirements.
The person that carries out electrical work that contravenes the Building Regulations can be fined up to £5000 for the contravention and £50 for each day the contravention continues. Additionally, you may encounter problems selling your house if work fails to comply with the Building Regulations. It is you as the householder/owner who is ultimately responsible for ensuring that electrical work complies with the Building Regulations in your dwelling.It is you who may be ultimately served with an enforcement notice."

 

[Silly Sausage]

If someone's happy to do that then that would be fantastic, I'm not sure if my uncle would be willing to pay the going rate though - hence why he'd doing it himself!
With regards to certifying the work, what exactly needs doing legally? I'm sure you need relevant certificates when selling the house, but when I mentioned that he simply said he doesn't plan to sell up for 20 plus years so will deal with that later. If he goes ahead and does the work himself (which knowing him I'm afraid he will) would he be breaking the law?

Here is the relevant document...
http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/br/AD_P_wm.pdf

Look @ Section 1, in particular 1.24 onwards.

 

[malcolmsanford]

And of course if the OP is Scotland or NI .................we need to start all over again.

Let's just for one moment forget about Part in all it's glory and pretend we live in electrical utopia, where a man in his castle can carry out work until his heart is content without fear of retribution from the electric police ..

You uncle won't know

1) How to calculate VD
2) RCD additional protection for the installation and why we need it
3) Does the SWA cable itself need RCD protection
4) With the volt drop is the cable big enough
5) Are there going to be water services into this place
6) Can he spur of that socket, is it already a spur
7) Can he terminate a SWA gland to make sure it is electrically and mechanically sound

And the list could continue. So in order to save your uncle from doing something he may regret ................

 

[Engineer54]

And of course if the OP is Scotland or NI .................we need to start all over again.

Let's just for one moment forget about Part in all it's glory and pretend we live in electrical utopia, where a man in his castle can carry out work until his heart is content without fear of retribution from the electric police ..

You uncle won't know

1) How to calculate VD
2) RCD additional protection for the installation and why we need it
3) Does the SWA cable itself need RCD protection
4) With the volt drop is the cable big enough
5) Are there going to be water services into this place
6) Can he spur of that socket, is it already a spur
7) Can he terminate a SWA gland to make sure it is electrically and mechanically sound

And the list could continue. So in order to save your uncle from doing something he may regret ................

Not forgetting, an electrician doing the job, can well work out cheaper than doing the job yourself and paying the notifying fee to the LABC!! ...lol!!!

He can always offer to dig the cable trench and to back fill, that will cut the electricians fee considerably!!...lol!!

 

[Octopus]

If someone's happy to do that then that would be fantastic, I'm not sure if my uncle would be willing to pay the going rate though - hence why he'd doing it himself

So you expect us professionals, to tell you how to do this properly, so you can tell your Uncle, so he can do it himself.

Goodbye then and I hope you don't injure yourselves

Madness.

 

[AD23]

So you expect us professionals, to tell you how to do this properly, so you can tell your Uncle, so he can do it himself.

Goodbye then and I hope you don't injure yourselves

Madness.

Hi Murdoch

To be fair I did propose an installation method in my original post, I was simply after any advice on offer should my proposal be incorrect. And whilst I fully appreciate your concerns with regards to taking work away from a qualified electrician, I was under the impression that the work can be undertaken by anybody and then signed off providing it meets the required standards.

 

[parker56]

your soooooooooooooo wrong,please take the advice you been given.

 

[Octopus]

Hi Murdoch

To be fair I did propose an installation method in my original post, I was simply after any advice on offer should my proposal be incorrect. And whilst I fully appreciate your concerns with regards to taking work away from a qualified electrician, I was under the impression that the work can be undertaken by anybody and then signed off providing it meets the required standards.

My point is that you are expecting us to "sign off" your design and why should we do this?

 

[AD23]

Because I would pay you. I thought most electricians sign off other peoples work from time to time?

 

[Octopus]

Because I would pay you. I thought most electricians sign off other peoples work from time to time?

People signed up to Part P schemes are forbidden from signing off other peoples work.

 

[Octopus]

Because I would pay you. I thought most electricians sign off other peoples work from time to time?

When I say "sign off" I mean tell you that you are planning to do it right and most DIYer's say they will say they will get it signed off but have absolutely no intention of doing so.

Is it your garden or your uncles - you are inconsistent.

 

[micknew]

Another DIYer trying to pick our brains to save money.

 

[micknew]

This forum is for discussing unusual problems not for giving step by step instructions to B&Q customers.

 

[AD23]

Right, before I get any more sniping I think I need to clear a few things up. I am not another B&Q customer, and quite frankly to just assume so is disrespectful. You don't know the first thing about me, and I never felt the need to give you a back story but maybe now I should. Far from being a DIYer I actually passed my C&G 2330 with distinction in all units last year. I have been actively looking for work within the industry, looking to also add my 2391 and 2356 but several unfortunate personal and financial setbacks have made that extremely difficult for the time being. As I'm sure all you qualified sparks will agree doing it in the classroom is one thing, doing it out there in the real world is quite another - and as someone who lacks some of the practical experience required I came to this forum seeking support and advice.
Micknew, I thought that the fact I've been given a job spec that forbids the removal of flooring or addition of trunking in order to make this a dedicated circuit at the CU might well qualify this as being an unusual problem.
Murdoch, you asked ME why you should sign off MY design hence why I said I would pay you. If you are unable to grasp basic english, maybe you should be posting on the Plumbers Forum :wink_smile:
I have a beligerant uncle who wants this job done as quickly and cheaply as possible, as I'm sure most of your clients would. I know the importance of putting safety first, but he is determined to go ahead regardless and I want to be there to make sure it's done right.
I know I lack experience and have a long way to go, but I know with the right guidance I can do it right. I'll even pay to notify Building control and get it signed off by a qualified spark myself if needs be!
If my proposal is shot, then I can accept that, all I want is to know if I'm on the right tracks, or if I should go back to the drawing board.
Thanks guys, I genuinely do appreciate your input.

 

[micknew]

Seems to be a few posts at the moment asking how to do extension/summerhouse work.
Spring DIY time?