Internet in Garage - Powerline Issues

[LHensh]

I have bought a TP Link Home Plug kit to try and get internet in my garage.

The kit works fine in the house but unfortunately I get no connection in the garage.

The garage is on its own circuit, however from what I have read online this shouldn't cause any issues.

Could it be the fuse box in the garage (see photo attached) that is causing the issue? If so how easily can these be replaced/upgraded?

Is there anything else that could be causing me to not get any connection in the garage?

 

[LHensh]

Update: have just tested the powerline on a socket upstairs which is on a different circuit to where I had it working downstairs and that works fine.

So I guess it's a case of understanding how the garage is configured differently to the main house?

 

[pc1966]

Those power line kit are pretty rubbish really, unless it is the same circuit then devices like MCB/RCD will block a lot of the signal.

 

[pc1966]

If you can simply run some network cable to the garage you will have a much faster and more reliable solution. You can get outdoor UV rated network cable for doing this, for example:

https://cpc.farnell.com/pro-power/cat6outdoor100m/category-6-cable-outdoor-100m/dp/CB14780

If you need several outlets in the garage then you can use a small switch. If you also want wifi then a router but to do it properly you don't want to have it doing NAT, you want only to use the LAN side and have no DHCP, etc, so it looks just like the LAN side of your main router and all DHCP requests are done via that.

 

[littlespark]

I’m not sure, but does powerline not utilise the earth wire rather than a live conductor?

Maybe you have an issue with the earth in there?

 

[pc1966]

I’m not sure, but does powerline not utilise the earth wire rather than a live conductor?

Maybe you have an issue with the earth in there?

I did not think so, but it is certainly worth checking out!

A bad/missing earth could be far more serious than no internet!

 

[brianmoooore]

you don't want to have it doing NAT, you want only to use the LAN side and have no DHCP, etc, so it looks just like the LAN side of your main router and all DHCP requests are done via that.

And in English?

 

[timhoward]

And in English?

Most wifi routers assume they are the only device, and will try and assign IP addresses (unique numbers) to it's clients, and it's better if the unit in the house does all of that. So it needs setting up by someone with a bit of tcp/ip networking knowledge.

 

[pc1966]

And in English?

A "router" is quite complicated because it is doing several things. The switch aspect (e.g. 4 ports you can plug stuff in to) is the simplest part, but it also has (usually) these:

• Network Address Translation (NAT) so the single internet protocol (IP) address that your internal provider (BT, Virgin, TalkTalk, etc) allocates to you can in turn be used by many devices in your home. Originally used to get round the limited availability of addresses, but turned out to be a handy layer of security as the outside machines can't simply reach in to a NAT'd device without added steps being enabled (port forwarding, etc) since the NAT layer only forwards replies to known outgoing requests.
• Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol (DHCP) so that those devices don't have to know in advance what IP they can use, they just connect and ask for a unique address to be allocated for them.
• WiFi as the radio bridge from IP packets to some devices radio, along with password or similar control of radio access.
• Firewall (not always) to limit what traffic can come and go on the various interfaces.

As @timhoward has already said, a router usually assumes it is the master of all connected and you will get in to problems if you try to link more than one together without some understanding of the above. Or you pay someone (company, local guru) to make it all happen for you.

If you use something professional, or something that is open for anyone to fiddle with, then you can make two or more work as if they are one network by having one as "master" that does NAT & DHCP and the others just do the wifi and switching aspect.

 

[pc1966]

If you have nothing better to be doing, then this has info on using a 2nd OpenWRT device as a dumb access point (wifi extending, etc):

[OpenWrt Wiki] Wireless Access Point (aka "Dumb" Access Point)

openwrt.org

And to allow devices to roam more easily from one wiif point to another you can use these steps:

Enabling 802.11r (Fast Roaming/Transition) on OpenWRT

802.11r, also known as Fast Roaming/Transition on OpenWRT allows clients to seamlessly switch between several access points depending on which one is closer to the client. This is great for locations with more than one access point as a client does not have to drop a connection to rescan for...

parkercs.tech

Or pay the likes of Cisco a wad of cash to make it happen for you.

 

[brianmoooore]

I actually have some of this stuff, but use a 22 year old nerd (son) to set it all up.
Have BT fibre to property into the BT optical receiver type thing, which then feeds a BT wi fi router. The wifi signal from this isn't normally used, but it has two CAT5 cables connected to it, with one going to an outdoor wi fi router, and the other going to an indoor wi fi router. There is also a cheap plug in wi fi Rx/Tx in one property, that receives signals from the outdoor router, and transmits them through a doorway to the back of that property.

 

[marcuswareham]

I’m not sure, but does powerline not utilise the earth wire rather than a live conductor?

Maybe you have an issue with the earth in there?

All of the network over power adaptors i have used use live conductors, i have had success using TP link ones from a house to a remote building with TT and no earth connection between them a few times

But thats not to say that they all work like that, it would be interesting to know

 

[LHensh]

Would there be any suitable WiFi options I could use given that it's just the ability to stream HD video that I'm looking for?

I had considered mesh system but I'm keen to keep hold of the router I've only recently purchased.

Wireless access points maybe?

 

[LHensh]

If you can simply run some network cable to the garage you will have a much faster and more reliable solution. You can get outdoor UV rated network cable for doing this, for example:

https://cpc.farnell.com/pro-power/cat6outdoor100m/category-6-cable-outdoor-100m/dp/CB14780

If you need several outlets in the garage then you can use a small switch. If you also want wifi then a router but to do it properly you don't want to have it doing NAT, you want only to use the LAN side and have no DHCP, etc, so it looks just like the LAN side of your main router and all DHCP requests are done via that.

I've slept on it and think this might be my best option.

Would there be anything additional that I would need to consider as I would be doing this DIY? For example how easy is it to terminate the cabled properly?

I'd then connect to an AP once in the garage, so will read up on your advice re setting this up correctly.

Is there any key difference between the product below and the one you suggested as this one is slightly cheaper?

External SHIELDED CAT6 Outdoor Use COPPER Ethernet Cable F/UTP Reel 100m

Our kenable Cat6 F/UTP outdoor cable is designed with FULL COPPER 23AWG twisted pairs and is Foil Shielded to ensure any interference is kept under control it also has a drain wire so can be earthed! Our cat 6 F/UTP cables also have a divider to separate the twisted pairs reducing cross talk...

www.kenable.co.uk

 

[SJD]

Would there be anything additional that I would need to consider as I would be doing this DIY? For example how easy is it to terminate the cabled properly?

Terminating the cables into IDC connectors is quite easy if you have a decent tool, worth spending a few £ for a decent one, not the very cheap & nasty plastic ones. Plus get at least a basic data tester, a transmitter & receiver that cycles through each of the 8 cores, and tells you continuity is OK e.g. with a simple 8-LED display.

 

[pc1966]

The screened cable is only really useful if you can connect the screen at one (or both) ends to ground. For most applications (all plastic sockets, etc) the unscreened type is fine.

As above, you can either fix the cable to wall sockets or a patch-panel, and then use short cables to the switch/router, etc. Or do the simplest way and just make one long cable with plugs at the end! Max length for a single run of copper Ethernet is typically 100m, but that should be plenty for you.

Here is an example of a good crimp tool for the plugs, and the related plugs that have cable trimmed after insertion (far easier to do):

https://www.NoLinkingToThis/p/ideal-rj45-ft-45-feed-thru-crimp-tool-5-140mm/8518x

https://www.NoLinkingToThis/p/ideal-rj45-8p-8c-feed-thru-modular-plugs-25-pack/6317x

Given you can get push-down tools cheaper, you might decide to put in some plastic back-boxes and wall mounting RJ45 sockets instead. For example:

https://www.NoLinkingToThis/p/c-k-punch-down-tool/3846k

https://www.NoLinkingToThis/p/philex-cat-6-1-port-rj45-ethernet-socket-white/78961

 

[baldelectrician]

One thing that is often missed- keep your old routers as they usually have a WAN connection on them

I run armoured cat 6 cables when I do garages etc

 

[pc1966]

I run armoured cat 6 cables when I do garages etc

Armoured is ideal for that!

In proper (and hopefully mostly dry) duct, even along with SWA power cable, you can often get away with the simple outdoor style of cable (as the SWA's armour is an earthed barrier between the two), but if part of a planned significant bit of work then spending the extra on SWA network cable is worth doing.

Potentially even looking at putting in fibre if longer distance and/or a lot of use planned, as switches with matching SFP are not so shockingly expensive these days. However, I would need to buy pre-assembled fibre or pay to get someone in to do that step as terminating fibre is not an easy job even for someone who does a lot of specialised RF connectors normally.

The OP has not said how he plans on routing the cable between the buildings. One thing to avoid are sharp bends/kinks in the cable as it can degrade the performance and possibly even permanently damages it so hopefully they have a plan where bends are ideally no sharper than around 2cm radius (CAT-5e) to 2.8cm radius (CAT-6A).

If they plan on running it overhead they will need to attach it to some sort of guy rope/wire with something like UV rated cable ties (but not too tight) as that cable, like many cables, is not strong enough to be self-supporting over any significant distance.

 

[LHensh]

Given you can get push-down tools cheaper, you might decide to put in some plastic back-boxes and wall mounting RJ45 sockets instead. For example:

https://www.NoLinkingToThis/p/c-k-punch-down-tool/3846k

https://www.NoLinkingToThis/p/philex-cat-6-1-port-rj45-ethernet-socket-white/78961

If I were to terminate the cable in one of these back boxes and then from that ran a standard cat6 cable to an access point, would I see any drop in speed by having the additional cable?

 

[pc1966]

If I were to terminate the cable in one of these back boxes and then from that ran a standard cat6 cable to an access point, would I see any drop in speed by having the additional cable?

Done correctly, no.

You should get full gigabit speed (assuming related equipment has that capacity) as long as total length is no more than about 100m, and there are only a couple of connections (with related changes in cable impedance) along the way.