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Hey guys
I installed a cat 6 ftp cable last week around 50metres. It goes from one cat6 faceplate to another. When I originally tested the connection it was fine with my network tester,we tested with a couple of cat 5e patch leads to check connectivity and was fine. Today the customer has brought a couple of cat 6 patch leads and re tested (getting no connection). I popped out tonight and tested the line with my tester and getting nothing, would you point towards it being a module issue as the tester would pick up open circuits so I know it’s not that.
From your experience what would you guess it could be.
 
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Deleted member 105166

Sounds like some damage has occurred somewhere along the 50m of cable. Are other trades working on the site?
 
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  • #3
No other trades although it does have a couple bends as it was installed in conduit to outside wall as it goes from the house to barn down the garden. I understood the tester would pick up any open circuits along the run. I’m praying there ain’t a break in the cable haha
 
D

Deleted member 105166

So when you installed it last week, you had continuity on all four pairs and today you have used the same instrument and get no continuity on any of the four pairs? Have you checked the punchdowns on each of the face plates are still intact? Have you checked everywhere the cable enters and exits the conduit for damage?
 
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  • #5
I have pal was continuity last week but nothing today at all, repunched them all and checked all where there may be kinks, obviously bar stripping the cable and checking the connections will be difficult to tell if there is damage anywhere, that’s why I’m aiming towards one of the modules which I will pop back and change, but just curious to see if there could be any others issues apart from the mods and hopefully not the cable.
So when you installed it last week, you had continuity on all four pairs and today you have used the same instrument and get no continuity on any of the four pairs? Have you checked the punchdowns on each of the face plates are still intact? Have you checked everywhere the cable enters and exits the conduit for damage?
 
D

Deleted member 105166

I can't see how it is a module, if all pairs worked last week and none work today. Something has happened to that cable, it shouldn't be too difficult to find and is most likely to be where it isn't in conduit. At the barn end, check for rodent damage.
 

Strima

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I doubt it’s a module as they are normally a solid link from the punch down to the socket. Tony has suggested rodent damage to the cable which is pretty common.
 
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  • #8
If it was a break in the cable would the tester which is only a cheap network tester from Screwfix (does the job) not show an open circuit which it is there to detect. I would be very unlucky to have all pairs broken. No rodent damage to barn to cable from what I can see, I could carry out a continuity test on all the pairs to check for any breaks in the cable.
 

SparkyChick

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Arms
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The testers rely on at least two cores being complete... one under test and one as the return I'm guessing. If the cable is completely broken, they can't work.

Is the cable completely encased in conduit? Any parts in the ground?

Might be time to consider some of this:-

External Network Cable CAT5E Armoured SWA - https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Index/Cable_Index/Network_Cable_External/index.html
 
D

Deleted member 105166

As an aside, how many Cat6 runs have you got in that conduit? Always best to install data cabling in pairs and if in a higher risk environment such as yours, as Cat5/6 is cheap as chips, it doesn't hurt to run a spare line in the conduit to future proof. If you can't find and fix it, can you use the existing cable as a draw string to pull new runs through?
 
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  • #11
I really can’t see where it would be broken (obviously not ruling it out) it’s encased in conduit outside before it enters the loft and clipped round and down to dining area, it’s just strange how it’s lasted 3 days then completely packed up. I think your right sparky chick that external duct cable should have being used to maybe give better protection. (Lesson learnt) just hoping it’s a simple resolution this time.
 

buzzlightyear

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If you have a cont tester bell it out to see if you have lost any thing. .
 
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  • #13
Good idea that pal and one I will carry out in the future. If I do have replace the cable I could pull a new one in. (Just have to take a hit on the job and learn my lesson) tbf the cable I installed was cat6 ftp and cost around £110 for 305 metres so not the cheapest.
 

Strima

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Was the cable pure copper or copper coated aluminium?
 
Have to ask if you've confirmed the tester on a known good cable? Those Screwfix (Philex?) testers aren't super reliable. Either way you'll find out when you buzz the wires.
 
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  • #18
Have to ask if you've confirmed the tester on a known good cable? Those Screwfix (Philex?) testers aren't super reliable. Either way you'll find out when you buzz the wires.
I know they ain’t the best, but did check the patch cables I was using to check continuity and all ok, like you say bell them out and see where I am at with it.
 

PEG

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Join all four pairs securely,at one end,and crack-on with your 28 continuity tests,at the other end...have a cup of tea,while you peruse the readings :)
 
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  • #20
Join all four pairs securely,at one end,and crack-on with your 28 continuity tests,at the other end...have a cup of tea,while you peruse the readings :)
Quite informative PEG, what 28 continuity tests would you carry out to ensure all is ok.
 
S

Squid

Check the patch leads to see if they are standard cables or crossover leads and check each cable separately whilst disconnected.

What tester are you using as I used to use a Fluke Link Runner for integrating cable runs and port locations.

FLUKE NETWORKS LinkRunner AT 1000 Network Auto-Tester - The fastest... - https://www.comms-express.com/products/linkrunner-at-1000-network-auto-tester/
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #22
Check the patch leads to see if they are standard cables or crossover leads and check each cable separately whilst disconnected.

What tester are you using as I used to use a Fluke Link Runner for integrating cable runs and port locations.

FLUKE NETWORKS LinkRunner AT 1000 Network Auto-Tester - The fastest... - https://www.comms-express.com/products/linkrunner-at-1000-network-auto-tester/
Bit more advanced machine than the philex network tester from Screwfix pal haha I shall check the cables when I go back. Thanks for the advice
 
S

Squid

Bit more advanced machine than the philex network tester from Screwfix pal haha I shall check the cables when I go back. Thanks for the advice
Also what make of faceplates/modules did you use as CAT6 can be a sod to punchdown/chrone in to the plates.
 

Richard Burns

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Quite informative PEG, what 28 continuity tests would you carry out to ensure all is ok.
These
Continuity testing data.jpg
 
I had a similar problem,it worked,then weeks later failed.
I changed the data module,re connected,& ok....fingers crossed.
Don’t know about you,I kinda loose it a bit on these connections,not really knowing the in’s & out’s.
 
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  • #26
I’m back there Friday so will take in all the info I have from you guys and will pinpoint the issue hopefully
 
S

Squid

If using a chrome tool always punch down a couple of times CAT6 cable is thicker the telephone cable and can be a sod to get into the termination.
 

PEG

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Quite informative PEG, what 28 continuity tests would you carry out to ensure all is ok.
Hi,i would have carried the most basic of tests,using whatever AVI or resistance measuring device i had to hand,and would have an indication,before i had tea,whether or not it was O/C on one or all conductors.

Before i did the above,any multi-continuity or TDR type testing,i would do the following....make sure,i had the two ends of the same cable,EVEN if i fitted it initially...i would walk the route,giving every inch,a good,hard Paddington bear type stare,to look for clues.

I would be assuming the worst - and then discounting it.

....Maybe someone pulled a t&e,through one of your holes/conduits....maybe it was tight,and they pulled back and forth,and sawed through your cable,and now,one of the live conductors,is bridging or has severed,the CAT cable...

It is unlikely,but can happen,as i have seen it happen,so get stuck in,be thorough,be successful,maybe even be a hero....but sort it,invoice accordingly and then..........relax:cool::)
 

telectrix

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should have used dog6 instead of cat6..... rougher, tougher, more atffectionate, and does not give you agonising hay fever. :D:D:D.
 
S

Squid

why the dumb. was meant in jest. maybe a bit too subtle for southern pussies?
Was meant in jest in return all that lead poisoning from the stolen lead has slowed you down ;o)))))))))
 
J

Jjc

Is
Hey guys
I installed a cat 6 ftp cable last week around 50metres. It goes from one cat6 faceplate to another. When I originally tested the connection it was fine with my network tester,we tested with a couple of cat 5e patch leads to check connectivity and was fine. Today the customer has brought a couple of cat 6 patch leads and re tested (getting no connection). I popped out tonight and tested the line with my tester and getting nothing, would you point towards it being a module issue as the tester would pick up open circuits so I know it’s not that.
From your experience what would you guess it could be.
Is it installed in containment throughout its length? This is important with data cables.
 
Did you use Krone or 110 punchdown tool to match the terminations on the modules? They are different and using the wrong one in the wrong terminal may produce inconsistent results.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #37
Is

Is it installed in containment throughout its length? This is important with data cables.
Not completely no, it possibly has around 5metres where it aint possible to install containment so just clipped, what affects could this have on the cable?
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #38
Did you use Krone or 110 punchdown tool to match the terminations on the modules? They are different and using the wrong one in the wrong terminal may produce inconsistent results.
It was the CK punch down tool from screwfix. Im returning on Thursday to rectify this issue so hoping something simple.
 
Not completely no, it possibly has around 5metres where it aint possible to install containment so just clipped, what affects could this have on the cable?
It's about the potential for damage to the cable.

There is nothing wrong with an exposed cable per se, although I would be cautious about running one where it was exposed to UV from the sun on a long term basis.

It is easy to damage a data cable by using inappropriate cable clips. In particular, the use of plain wire staples (as favoured by BT for telephone wiring) is not generally recommended as it is difficult to avoid over-driving them, resulting in putting a nasty kink in the cable. This matters a lot for CAT5 and it is even more crucial that it is avoided for CAT6. The longer the run the more important it is that the integrity of the cross section of the cable is not altered at any point and again, whilst important for both types, this is more crucial for CAT6.

It is also very easy to permanently screw up a network cable by pulling it around bends in conduit and the like using force which would not cause the slightest problem to a bit of T&E.

Having said all that this pertains to data integrity and not OC conditions.

For OC I would be looking for a severed cable. It's not impossible but highly unlikely to induce an OC in all 8 cores but in order to do that some major thuggishness would have had to have been deployed in the original running of the cable and the defect would likely have been immediately detectable.

Punch down faults tend not to affect all 8 cores, so I would again be looking for a cut in my cable. it has been noted that the correct form of punch down tool is deployed and this is true. it is, unfortunately, certainly also true that if one tries "hard enough" it is possible to apparently achieve a connection using the wrong tool but it will be very unreliable and liable to fail at any point in the future. Once again though, this happens on a core by core basis, so if you have (had) continuity on the original install and now have none on all 8 cores then it is not likely (although not absolutely guaranteed to be impossible) to be either a punch down or a module issue but a wholesale break in the cable.

It's an Occam's Razor thing.

No continuity on any core? You're looking for serious cable trauma.

Just lost one or two cores? Consider punch down failure, module failure (it doesn't do to cheap out on quality of the component here - especially for CAT6), or cable trauma but less severe than above. This last can be a real sod to find visually, as trauma sufficient to break a single core can be very difficult to spot by eye. Easy to spot with a resistance / continuity check of course and typically is going to require that you strip out and bin the original cable in it's entirely anyway, as patching in new sections of CAT6 cable to replace any physical damage is not recommended from the POV of guaranteeing the data integrity (i.e. speed).
 
S

Squid

It's about the potential for damage to the cable.

There is nothing wrong with an exposed cable per se, although I would be cautious about running one where it was exposed to UV from the sun on a long term basis.

It is easy to damage a data cable by using inappropriate cable clips. In particular, the use of plain wire staples (as favoured by BT for telephone wiring) is not generally recommended as it is difficult to avoid over-driving them, resulting in putting a nasty kink in the cable. This matters a lot for CAT5 and it is even more crucial that it is avoided for CAT6. The longer the run the more important it is that the integrity of the cross section of the cable is not altered at any point and again, whilst important for both types, this is more crucial for CAT6.

It is also very easy to permanently screw up a network cable by pulling it around bends in conduit and the like using force which would not cause the slightest problem to a bit of T&E.

Having said all that this pertains to data integrity and not OC conditions.

For OC I would be looking for a severed cable. It's not impossible but highly unlikely to induce an OC in all 8 cores but in order to do that some major thuggishness would have had to have been deployed in the original running of the cable and the defect would likely have been immediately detectable.

Punch down faults tend not to affect all 8 cores, so I would again be looking for a cut in my cable. it has been noted that the correct form of punch down tool is deployed and this is true. it is, unfortunately, certainly also true that if one tries "hard enough" it is possible to apparently achieve a connection using the wrong tool but it will be very unreliable and liable to fail at any point in the future. Once again though, this happens on a core by core basis, so if you have (had) continuity on the original install and now have none on all 8 cores then it is not likely (although not absolutely guaranteed to be impossible) to be either a punch down or a module issue but a wholesale break in the cable.

It's an Occam's Razor thing.

No continuity on any core? You're looking for serious cable trauma.

Just lost one or two cores? Consider punch down failure, module failure (it doesn't do to cheap out on quality of the component here - especially for CAT6), or cable trauma but less severe than above. This last can be a real sod to find visually, as trauma sufficient to break a single core can be very difficult to spot by eye. Easy to spot with a resistance / continuity check of course and typically is going to require that you strip out and bin the original cable in it's entirely anyway, as patching in new sections of CAT6 cable to replace any physical damage is not recommended from the POV of guaranteeing the data integrity (i.e. speed).
.Screenshot 2019-02-25 at 18.39.24.jpg
 

Rpa07

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