Discuss junction boxes. good or bad? in the Industrial Electrician Talk area at ElectriciansForums.net

M

mullock

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Hi all

i'm still doing my 2330 courses and am being instructed how to wire lighting circuits using a main feed and a strapper down to the switches. We have to told that junction boxes are bad practice as they restrict accessability which makes perfect sense.

I recently had a look at a family members house which has just been re-wired and found that juntion boxes had been used. Is this poor standards to save money on cable or the normal.

cheers everyone
 
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A

alex

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #3
its really bad and poorly rewired if in a new installation they have needed to use junction boxes :mad: i cant see why apart from poor workmanship that they need junction boxes.
 

danzor

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Mentor
Arms
Hi all

i'm still doing my 2330 courses and am being instructed how to wire lighting circuits using a main feed and a strapper down to the switches. We have to told that junction boxes are bad practice as they restrict accessability which makes perfect sense.

I recently had a look at a family members house which has just been re-wired and found that juntion boxes had been used. Is this poor standards to save money on cable or the normal.

cheers everyone
do u mean the JB's were used in the 3 plate lighting connection or someone cut a cable to short and extended it?
 
M

mullock

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #5
its a fairly old house that was re-wired all though. From what i could see junction boxes where used as in the three plate lighting connection.
 
R

rumrunner

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #6
its a fairly old house that was re-wired all though. From what i could see junction boxes where used as in the three plate lighting connection.
hi
if the light fittings are not ,ceiling roses ,then "spiders" would be a neater and easyer way of doing it;)
 
S

Spudmiester

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #7
Spiders ? You could put one in the bath to frighten the kids/missus !! :eek:
 
V

Victorcrane

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #8
Quite glad someone brought this up. I'm two thirds through my 2330 also, and have worked for several different companies gaining experience on site.

About half have told me that absolutely under no circumstances should a junction box be used even if it means pulling out and reinstalling an entire run of cable that has been cut too short, and the other half have said it's fine to use jb's pretty much wherever it seems the most convenient thing to do.

I'm still quite a bit confused by this! :)
 
R

rumrunner

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #9
Quite glad someone brought this up. I'm two thirds through my 2330 also, and have worked for several different companies gaining experience on site.

About half have told me that absolutely under no circumstances should a junction box be used even if it means pulling out and reinstalling an entire run of cable that has been cut too short, and the other half have said it's fine to use jb's pretty much wherever it seems the most convenient thing to do.

I'm still quite a bit confused by this! :)
In my opinion using a junction box ,to extend a bit of cable is just lazy and bad practice ,using one to connect to a light fitting thats not a 3 plate fitting ,i think its preferable to using connector block pushed up into the ceiling
junction boxes have provided a solution for electricians for a very long time ,some folks just want to change everything.i will continue to use the good old spider as long as they make them ,but only as a solution not a matter of course
 
M

MacSparky

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #10
Hey rum, i haven't seen a 'spider' before....is there a link you know of so i can sneak a peep;)

cheers...mac
 
W

wayne

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #11
as a solution not as a matter of course,help im agreeing with rum too much
 

danzor

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Mentor
Arms
Hey rum, i haven't seen a 'spider' before....is there a link you know of so i can sneak a peep;)

cheers...mac

 
R

rumrunner

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #13
sh~~ man ,you freaked me out with that !
 
R

rumrunner

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #15
Naw you just wrap the wire around its legs , they work a bit like a plc, there clever wee things:cool:
 
C

Cirrus

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #16
I use JB's every now and then to extend a circuit in order to save the time pulling a new circuit in. IMO, if terminated properly and accessible (and screwed down) then there is nothing wrong. However, if undergoing a rewire then there is no excuse for JB's.
 
R

rumrunner

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #17
I use JB's every now and then to extend a circuit in order to save the time pulling a new circuit in. IMO, if terminated properly and accessible (and screwed down) then there is nothing wrong. However, if undergoing a rewire then there is no excuse for JB's.

sorry to disagree cirrus ,but i wouldnt use a joint box to extend any circuit ,i consider it bad practice and would require the job to be done again if i was running the job.
 
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C

Cirrus

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #18
Time is money old chap;)
 
R

rumrunner

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #19
naw ,its about having pride in your work ,in my opinion it doesnt matter how long a job takes as long as its right ,and money is no excuse for bad workmanship,as i said if you were working on a job i was running and you did that ,i would ask you to put it right ,if you argued about it i would pump you off the job ,its bad practice ,do a job to the best of your ability ,thats what pays in the end
 
C

Cirrus

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #20
So are you saying there is NEVER a reason to extend a circuit Rum? It is widely accepted practice to use JB's and even more commonly - crimps. I became a spark to enjoy the work but also make money fella and I would rather use a JB where necessary than 'lose' money by pulling a fresh circuit in.
 

danzor

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Mentor
Arms
what would you do if u went back to a finished job, finished wooden flooring etc. How would you extend a cable? Or would you wreck the house for a little job?

Like people say, for a new rewire there is no exscuse. I prefer to use JB's for 3 plats connections. A firm I do work for use connector blocks and then choc block them. I see Jb's as a neater job. Just my view
 
R

rumrunner

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #23
what would you do if u went back to a finished job, finished wooden flooring etc. How would you extend a cable? Or would you wreck the house for a little job?

Like people say, for a new rewire there is no exscuse. I prefer to use JB's for 3 plats connections. A firm I do work for use connector blocks and then choc block them. I see Jb's as a neater job. Just my view
Yes ,i would stand by my principles, i would offer a price and if it wasnt accepted i would refuse to do the job ,simple
standards of workmanship are slipping ,thats partly why part p and all the rest of the crap was brought in ,
if you are happy doing a lash up ,thats up to you ,if your boss asks you to do it ,and you dont have the confidence to laugh at him ,and your happy being a puppet,all your life, do it ,
i set my own standards as far as what i deam acceptable practice,im at an advantage over you guys ,i was tought to the highest standard ,but im pleased to note the origional question on this thread ,was is it ok to use joint boxes ,because they told him at college it wasnt ,i agree, just because everyone else does something doesnt make it ok,
like i said you make your own standards.
 
C

Cirrus

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #24
Personal standards are great Rum but if I can earn a grand a week being safe and within the regs or £600 a week working by personal standards then it's a no brainer matey. Sorry but in Brown's world where cash is king - cash and safety first and principles second I'm afraid
 
R

rumrunner

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #25
Well they say every man has his price ,youre making a lot more than me right now ,so you must be rite,
Every trade has its chancers,i wonder what other "short cuts" you have to take to make your money.
i just hope you dont pass on your bad habits ,to lads that are going to take pride in there work .
 
C

Cirrus

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #26
It's not about bad habits Rum. I test everything I do and lets face it, to extend a circuit is no bad thing as long as tested thoroughly. If it is in a loft space and noone can see your 'skills' then who cares? Cables in a loft space - what pride is there to be had in hidden work? Maybe I am missing summat fella:confused:

Oh, and why insult me by deliberately calling me a 'chancer'?
 
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R

rumrunner

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #27
It's not about bad habits Rum. I test everything I do and lets face it, to extend a circuit is no bad thing as long as tested thoroughly. If it is in a loft space and noone can see your 'skills' then who cares? Cables in a loft space - what pride is there to be had in hidden work? Maybe I am missing summat fella:confused:

Oh, and why insult me by deliberately calling me a 'chancer'?
no ,i wasnt actually saying you "were a chancer" ,i havent seen your work ,but from what youve said ,money is more important than pride in your work ,and lets face it if you can make a thousand pound a week ,doing domestic work ,why not take some short cuts,as long as you and your boss are happy with it ,carry on ,im like "manuel"(i know nothing) but the fact remains if you did that on one of my jobs i would ask ,ask mind ,that you change it.
i would always price the job to change a cable rather than extend it ,im sure you dont do anything very dangerous :)
 
C

Cirrus

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #28
Very dangerous? I do nothing dangerous Rum. Point taken about your own personal expectations though
 
R

rumrunner

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #29
i like to think my standards are high ,i always do a job to the best of my ability ,and have trained others to do the same ,perfection !, and it pays off.
i will never change my opinion about how to do ANY electrical job,i owe that much to the greatful dead

i set a guy on once ,as a subbie ,i asked him if he had done much conduit ,"yeah stacks of it ",i asked him if he could do pyro, "no problem pal" he could throw it in ok ,quicker than me ,i kept telling him it "looked rough" his answer who cares were making ****t loads,
i lost about 3 grand on that job ,the clerk of works failed it ,well his bit anyway ,he said my work was the highest standard he had seen for a very long time,and fixed it so i got a plant room to do next ,on the condition i got rid of the other guy ,
that guy was an experianced electrician ,but didnt do what the customer wanted ,
he let his standards slip.and got pumped.

all the best ,goodnite fella
 
A

Andy M

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #30
Very Interesting to read 2 view points, i agree with you both, we all, i hope try to do our work to the highest standards we can, but we are in the same Market Place as people that don't, and the bottom line is, do we do it for love? no we do it for the Money! I agree the Standard of Electrical Work, especially in the Domestic arena has dropped dramatically since i started 24 yrs ago. How many houses do you visit to do an alteration or addition, and the Bonding hasn't been done? I would say 90% of the jobs i go to, and the last person to work on the installation hasn't bothered. I see these latest regs changes and part p, not as a pain in the arse, but as a way of making some more money, but the skill is finding the right client base and leaving the customers who want a cheap job to the "chancers" who will do it for them, and when they come to sell their house in a few years,lets hope it all goes tits up for them all. Target people who want Quality and Service and are prepared to pay for it. Before i take off my rose tinted glasses and hit the sack- Thought for the day - How many industries or walks of life, where as you gain more experience and become more qualified, does your salary or charges increase? Most i would say, but Electrical Contracting?
 
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