mortgage retention advice for current installation upgrade

[walkthenrun]

Hi guys,
i need to carry some work out to get my house to pass its mortgage retention, i had a mate from napit come round and do a electrical installation inspection condition report, as one of the retention on my mortgage is due to the old electrical installation. at the moment there is a 15 way merlin gerin consumer unit. I have identified all the circuit apart from one 15A breaker. anyway i was hoping to change the current unit to rcbo's i think this is probably the best thing at the moment considering the size of the house so if anything does go rong i can localise the problem more easily. guys i have come for advice as i dont know which unit to buy? am i doing the right thing by going for rcbo's. i need something that will allow me have at least 13 different circuits. the only thing i have found upto now is a Wylex 11 way Consumer Unit Type NH1104 that i could put 11 circuits on. The immediate advice my friend give me was to condition report was to update the consumer unit so that the shower is rcd protected, the lights in the bathroom are ip65. the supply to the summer house and the pond shed is in swa cable. is it possible to just take the current consumer unit and swap it directly for an 11 way rcbo consumer unit. would everything carry on working as it is working perfectly now.
i have identified each circuit as follows
1. annexe consumer unit and outdoor floodlight consumer unit (60A) (10mm cable and 2.5mm)
2. cooker (50A) (6mm)
3. upstairs sockets (32A) with two fuse spurs in garage from ring final in above main bedroom (2.5mm)
4. downstairs sockets (32A) (2.5mm)
5. 15A?
6. 5A lights in boiler room (G), garage(G), utility(G),main bathroom(U), small blue room(U), hallway(U), pink room(U) and kids room(U) G-ground U-upstairs (1.5)
7. shower (50A) (6mm 8.5kw shower clipped direct to wall)
8. main bedroom (U) and ensuite lights (U) (5A) (1.5mm)
9. kitchen(G) dining room(G) sitting room (G) and toy room lights (G) (5A) (1.5mm)
10. boiler (5A) (1mm)
11. Pond shed hager consumer unit (60A) (10mm)
12. summer house volex consumer unit (60A) (10mm)

some pictures are included thanks
main consumer unit

main c.u and outdoor lighting c.u

pond c.u

summer house c.u

annexe c.u

thanks in advance for your immediate advice if any more pictures are required please let me know thanks

 

[Clink]

Not really sure what your problem is there is a multitude of choice in larger CUs. Screwfix do a 15way Crabtree for around £90. But this work is notifiable anyway so just tell your electrician what you want and he will source suitable parts. To be honest you are not going to save very much (if anything) by buying yourself and having someone else fit AND TEST it.

 

[telectrix]

as you have had an EICR done, what code C1 and C2's are on the report? if none, then the EICR should be sufficient to get the lenders to remove the retention.

 

[plugsandsparks]

Looks like you already have RCD on one board so you will need a delayed type if you intend to use RCBO to feed that. This could limit your choice of CU.
TBH its a fairly big install, why not let the sparky do the leg work as if i was doing the upgrade i would be looking at all the DBs to ensure i had the appropriate MCB ratings / RCBO ratings for cables and as much discrimination as i could get which may involve reducing the size of some.

 

[Engineer54]

First off, what does this mortgage retention mean by ''old electrical installation'' From what i can see, i can't see a problem with the type of wiring. What did your friend come back with as far as the condition report, ...was there any code 1's or 2's highlighted?? If there isn't, i can't see how the mortgage company can maintain that retention order!!

 

[Engineer54]

Whoever installed the MG CU's didn't scrimp on costs, and will still probably be better than anything in the present Domestic market CU's ranges... lol!!

 

[telectrix]

yep. just get your spark to rectify any code C1 and C2 's. then send a copy of the certs. to the motgage sharks.

 

[bartkusal]

Hi. If you took the Amp ratings from MCB’s, I would be well interested to know in circuits 1, 2, 7, 11 and 12, what size of cable they protecting especially for shower 60A, it has to be a hell of a shower and a hell of a cable…..and then cooker 50A, that would be a very powerfull cooker???

Al

 

[telectrix]

is #7 a 50A. not too clear from the pic.

 

[Spoon]

is #7 a 50A. not too clear from the pic.

Looks like 50A to me...

 

[telectrix]

that's what i thought. don't think they make a 60A, but 63A as next up from 50.

 

[Spoon]

that's what i thought. don't think they make a 60A, but 63A as next up from 50.

Correct again.

 

[walkthenrun]

Not really sure what your problem is there is a multitude of choice in larger CUs. Screwfix do a 15way Crabtree for around £90. But this work is notifiable anyway so just tell your electrician what you want and he will source suitable parts. To be honest you are not going to save very much (if anything) by buying yourself and having someone else fit AND TEST it.

my mate who came to do the report has asked me to do the following changes he said a wylex twin rcd consumer unit should be sufficient as an upgrade to offer protection for the circuit within the house, so i will be buying it and installing it and he will be testing it and signing it off when its complete

 

[walkthenrun]

yep. just get your spark to rectify any code C1 and C2 's. then send a copy of the certs. to the motgage sharks.

there are no code 1 or code 2's however there are code 3 recommendations such as putting an rcd on the shower circuit, having ip65 lights in the bathroom rather then a standard gu10 fitting, i guess i was thinking im planning on living here for the next 30 years and that i would love the experience of taking it all apart and renewing the installation replacing it for rcbo's if i can get it to a modern standard that meets regs and will last

 

[Octopus]

my mate who came to do the report has asked me to do the following changes he said a wylex twin rcd consumer unit should be sufficient as an upgrade to offer protection for the circuit within the house, so i will be buying it and installing it and he will be testing it and signing it off when its complete

Do you have any test equipment. You could be asking for lots of trouble if you haven't.

 

[Engineer54]

These MG breakers are mostly type 2 using the older ratings, the shower breaker is a newer type B unit, and is a 50A unit!!
So yes they are 60A breakers rather than 63A. MG did make 32A as well as 30A type 2 breakers for a good while too, just to confuse things further!! lol!!

 

[walkthenrun]

First off, what does this mortgage retention mean by ''old electrical installation'' From what i can see, i can't see a problem with the type of wiring. What did your friend come back with as far as the condition report, ...was there any code 1's or 2's highlighted?? If there isn't, i can't see how the mortgage company can maintain that retention order!!

i believe they were my words "old electrical installation" not the mortgage companies, the installation address was a remortgage and unfortunately the last owners spent nothing at all on upkeep, so the mortgage report said that electric, gas, defective rendering, pointing etc would all need to be fixed before they would release the 10,000 they are charging us interest on that they will not pay till the work is complete. so the new boiler has been installed, the defective render has been cut and beaded, needs rendering, and now i am trying to do the electrical installation as i have complete level 2 and am currently studying level 3 and working as a mate. i believe they just want a certificate to show the installation is safe, i dont think anyone will give me a certificate till the board has been updated till it has at least rcd, but then im thinking if im going to all that cost anyway why not spend the extra hundred quid and fit rcbos instead.

 

[walkthenrun]

Whoever installed the MG CU's didn't scrimp on costs, and will still probably be better than anything in the present Domestic market CU's ranges... lol!!

this is my worry am i taking something good out to replace it with a wylex board ;-( hmmm

 

[walkthenrun]

Hi. If you took the Amp ratings from MCB’s, I would be well interested to know in circuits 1, 2, 7, 11 and 12, what size of cable they protecting especially for shower 60A, it has to be a hell of a shower and a hell of a cable…..and then cooker 50A, that would be a very powerfull cooker???

Al

bear with me im going to remove the cover and post a picture of cable sizes

 

[Spoon]

These MG breakers are mostly type 2 using the older ratings, the shower breaker is a newer type B unit, and is a 50A unit!!
So yes they are 60A breakers rather than 63A. MG did make 32A as well as 30A type 2 breakers for a good while too, just to confuse things further!! lol!!

We use Merlin Gerin Type C60HB's and in the catalogue I have it goes from 50A to 63A

 

[Engineer54]

Nope, the current BS7671 requirements are not retrospective to a previous complying installation . So all you need is a current cert confirming that the installation is suitable for continued service. eg, No code 1's or 2's!!

 

[Engineer54]

We use Merlin Gerin Type C60HB's and in the catalogue I have it goes from 50A to 63A

Ah, but that's today's ratings, these are ''Type 2'' breakers rated at the then standard 60A. Were not talking about the newer type B breaker that has been installed for the shower...

 

[walkthenrun]

Hi. If you took the Amp ratings from MCB’s, I would be well interested to know in circuits 1, 2, 7, 11 and 12, what size of cable they protecting especially for shower 60A, it has to be a hell of a shower and a hell of a cable…..and then cooker 50A, that would be a very powerfull cooker???

Al

if the shower no 7 is 6mm no2 looks to be 6mm too and that leads me to believe breakers 1+11+12 are all 10mm

 

[DPG]

What's the second cable going in to that 1st breaker? Daz

 

[walkthenrun]

We use Merlin Gerin Type C60HB's and in the catalogue I have it goes from 50A to 63A

is it possible to change the shower breaker i have at the moment to an rcbo in the same consumer unit (praying it is possible)

 

[walkthenrun]

What's the second cable going in to that 1st breaker? Daz

it is a feed for the small consumer unit to the right of the main c.u, which is responsible for the ring, that feeds the outside floodlights

 

[DPG]

What's the second cable going in to that 1st breaker? Daz

Ah, I've just re-read the OP, it's a security light fed from the 60A breaker! Daz

 

[Spoon]

Ah, but that's today's ratings, these are ''Type 2'' breakers rated at the then standard 60A. Were not talking about the newer type B breaker that has been installed for the shower...

I think im getting confued here.
They may have done 60A in the past but the shower MCB is a 50A type B, hence the B50 under the type C60HB.

 

[walkthenrun]

Nope, the current BS7671 requirements are not retrospective to a previous complying installation . So all you need is a current cert confirming that the installation is suitable for continued service. eg, No code 1's or 2's!!

could you give me an example of a code 1 or code 2 would that be something like does not conform to IP2X where there is risk of fatality

 

[Spoon]

is it possible to change the shower breaker i have at the moment to an rcbo in the same consumer unit (praying it is possible)

You shouldnt have to. As per Eng54 post 21.

 

[walkthenrun]

I think im getting confued here.
They may have done 60A in the past but the shower MCB is a 50A type B, hence the B50 under the type C60HB.

could you please clarify the significance of the c60hb as none of the other breakers display that its only the shower breaker that says that, is it just a breaker that allows a surge of current when it starts like the current type c thanks

 

[Essexboy7]

What is mortgage retention?I have never heard of it before

 

[walkthenrun]

You shouldnt have to. As per Eng54 post 21.

so what am i exactly asking for when my mate comes so i can get this retention removed? just a certificate to sign the current installation off as safe to operate with recommendations for possible improvements (im guessing if it stipulates the recommendations the mortgage company may ask for that work to be carried out before the mortgage retention is removed

 

[Engineer54]

I think im getting confued here.
They may have done 60A in the past but the shower MCB is a 50A type B, hence the B50 under the type C60HB.

You are!! lol!! The MCB type is just that a type, all are agreed now that it's a 50A type B breaker!! All the other breakers in this CU are C45's which are the older type 2 breakers...

 

[MDJ]

I like the Merlin boards, a spark installed that, he even changed the hager breakers to MEM in the 4 way board haha, he must have had it on the van, that merlin board will outlast you, it will last forever, that is an old one though, they have had plastic isolation clips above the MCBs for some years now, I remember that type of board, seen many of them before on council jobs in schools etc.

 

[Spoon]

could you please clarify the significance of the c60hb as none of the other breakers display that its only the shower breaker that says that, is it just a breaker that allows a surge of current when it starts like the current type c thanks

The C60HB is the name of the range of MCB's. The B50 under it states that it is a 50A Type B.

 

[walkthenrun]

What is mortgage retention?I have never heard of it before

it means you ask the bank for 100k and they say there is alot wrong with house i.e. damp up wall, old electrics old boiler, leaking roof, so they say we will lend you 100k but we holding 20k back cos that is how much money it will take to repair the house to get it into a state to sell it, and( so give you 80k) also go get 20k of someone else and also then spend 20k on the house to get them things fixed we told you were wrong and then we will give you the extra 20k and in the meantime we will charge you interest on the full 100k

- - - Updated - - -

The C60HB is the name of the range of MCB's. The B50 under it states that it is a 50A Type B.

ok so that the name of the range thanks

 

[walkthenrun]

Do you have any test equipment. You could be asking for lots of trouble if you haven't.

yes i have access to a fluke 1653b calibrated

 

[Spoon]

it means you ask the bank for 100k and they say there is alot wrong with house i.e. damp up wall, old electrics old boiler, leaking roof, so they say we will lend you 100k but we holding 20k back cos that is how much money it will take to repair the house to get it into a state to sell it, and( so give you 80k) also go get 20k of someone else and also then spend 20k on the house to get them things fixed we told you were wrong and then we will give you the extra 20k and in the meantime we will charge you interest on the full 100k

Dont you just love banks...

 

[Rampantchilli]

could you give me an example of a code 1 or code 2 would that be something like does not conform to IP2X where there is risk of fatality

If your 'mate' has done you a condition report he should of listed all the defects and codedthem as c1,c2,c3 or further investigation required. Any c1 or c2 would require work to give you a satisfactory certificate, c3 or FI can be left as is and your installation would comply.

with regards to your breakers, why not just swap those cb's for rcbo's and save yourself a fortune, MG still manufacture those and are readily available. Although I'd suggest you get advice on which size breakers you can use, as 6mm t&e clipped direct cannot be placed on a 50a cb/Rcbo let alone 60a