New job, new problems

[CardboardUncle]

my thoughts in red above

Thanks for the reply.

As for the socket example you are using the rcd would be required. But if it were a lighting circuit with surface mounted cables in trunking not passing through an special locations etc then my understanding would deem it okay to omit the RCD an still be with in regs?

Thanks again

 

[newtothis]

Sorry if this is a silly question - doesn't the "trunking" have to provide mechanical protection ?

 

[Richard Burns]

Lighting, with surface mounted cables, not in a special location, does not need 30mA RCD protection.

The trunking is only there to provide support, possibly visual acceptability and a modicum of protection (if required).
The level of protection required, assuming it is not a high risk area, is the cable sheath only, (think about flexes on equipment!)
Mechanical protection is a range of levels and in a domestic situation unless in the path of constant brushing against or door hitting it, etc. then the sheath should be enough, but nothing to stop you adding more.

 

[Spoon]

Apologise up front is this sounds like I'm teaching you to suck eggs but check out section 543.1.1. (page 164 BYB) if there isn't an earth and you are going to add one.

 

[marc8]

This is not an option for any new work installed.

Should the fitting not require a CPC you are not obliged to run a CPC, so therefore new work or not if you are using class 2 equipment then you don't need to run the CPC.

 

[Andy78]

Should the fitting not require a CPC you are not obliged to run a CPC, so therefore new work or not if you are using class 2 equipment then you don't need to run the CPC.

The presence of a circuit protective conductor is required at all points in a fixed wiring system.
It is not forbidden to take a protective conductor into a class 2 item of equipment.
All new work requires testing and certification, including earth fault loop impedance.

 

[CardboardUncle]

Does this still apply when changing a light to a decorative light for example? If I took down an existing pendant, found there was no earth but was going to be fitting a double insulated light fitting then would you still be required to run a cpc? A lot of people still issue minor works certs for changing light fittings don't they?

 

[Andy78]

Does this still apply when changing a light to a decorative light for example? If I took down an existing pendant, found there was no earth but was going to be fitting a double insulated light fitting then would you still be required to run a cpc? A lot of people still issue minor works certs for changing light fittings don't they?

A minor works cert can be issued for a change of accessory, but is not usually required. Changing of accessories is generally classed as maintenance which does not require certification.

The regs do require a circuit and/or system to be suitable for continued safe use before alteration or addition, so testing should be carried out to prove this, and a minor works cert to prove you have tested is not a bad idea.

 

[marc8]

The presence of a circuit protective conductor is required at all points in a fixed wiring system.
It is not forbidden to take a protective conductor into a class 2 item of equipment.
All new work requires testing and certification, including earth fault loop impedance.

can't see anywhere the regs have changed on it could you point me in the right direction ? class 2 no earth required, I have also asked Technical before that if I had a pendant light with no earth & wanted to change it could I change it yes as long as its class 2, same with adding another light as long as it's class 2 then no need for the CPC old & new.
I did not agree with no earth either but it does not matter as long as its class 2.
on Minor works you would record this as a Limitation as no earth exists for the circuit.

 

[markc123]

can't see anywhere the regs have changed on it could you point me in the right direction ? class 2 no earth required, I have also asked Technical before that if I had a pendant light with no earth & wanted to change it could I change it yes as long as its class 2, same with adding another light as long as it's class 2 then no need for the CPC old & new.
I did not agree with no earth either but it does not matter as long as its class 2.
on Minor works you would record this as a Limitation as no earth exists for the circuit.

411.3.1.1

EDITED..

You can't go failing installations for no earth at lighting points along as the fittings are class 2 as you correctly point out. This regulation is basically for new circuits being installed - and that regulation has been around for a while.

 

[Andy78]

can't see anywhere the regs have changed on it could you point me in the right direction ? class 2 no earth required, I have also asked Technical before that if I had a pendant light with no earth & wanted to change it could I change it yes as long as its class 2, same with adding another light as long as it's class 2 then no need for the CPC old & new.
I did not agree with no earth either but it does not matter as long as its class 2.
on Minor works you would record this as a Limitation as no earth exists for the circuit.

As Markc123 says the requirement for a cpc is a basic requirement of the regs. All new work must have a cpc provided. The exception in 411.3.1.1 is a pendant lampholder, but that just exempts the lampholder itself and not the base it is suspended from.