Problems with a new solar install

[MCS Renewables]

Heliosfa ...Your comment "when I pay the outstanding balance" will give you an indication for how long you will get quick after sales service !


Reading google reviews and website feedback is worthless as it can be done by anybody, you should have got phone numbers for previous customers.


You can only assume that companies from Burton on Trent and Ormskirk cannot get enough work within 50 miles of their base because they have a bad name locally.


We are based in Poole and have installations in Derby, Anglesey, Hertfordshire and throughout Wales because when solar started there was so few companies doing it, about 12 companies in total , therefore we had to travel. We also have jobs because relatives of our customer base want us to do it and they live in these places. We do not advertise for work outside our area because we do not need to and most decent companies are similar.


Ask yourself " why do the Burton on Trent crowd need to buy leads and find work in Southampton" ...


I will leave others to pick through the lack of main isolator, AC cable size, possible wrong inverter, lack of generation meter label, inverter probably in loft, poor DC wiring installation .........Project thrown in from the kerb in less than 5 hours .....what do you expect !

 

[heliosfa]

Heliosfa ...Your comment "when I pay the outstanding balance" will give you an indication for how long you will get quick after sales service !

I'd agree with that, but payment is due on completion and as far as I am concerned, the job is not complete yet as I have no documentation, test details, etc. etc.

I will leave others to pick through the lack of main isolator, AC cable size, possible wrong inverter, lack of generation meter label, inverter probably in loft, poor DC wiring installation .........Project thrown in from the kerb in less than 5 hours .....what do you expect !

the inverter is in the loft with DC and AC isolation switches (another pic), but to be honest there is no where else it could go - the property doesn't have a garage and the cupboard under the stairs (where all the current electrics and the boiler are) is tiny and full. The loft is floored and accessible.



Thanks for the input so far from everyone - I will get the other photos tomorrow and I will have a read through the MCS solar install book.

i may have missed saying this earlier, but the property is a fairly standard two-storey, 3-bed 1920s semi with hipped roof.

 

[MCS Renewables]

Does the AC cable go straight outside and up the outside wall ?
What size is the AC cable ?
How long is the AC cable run ?
Is it enclosed in conduit outside ?
How hot does your loft get in summer ?
What actual model inverter is it ?
Did they leave you an electrical certificate after adding a new circuit / mains board ?
Two DC strings yet only one DC isolator ?
I assume the DC isolator internal links have been removed ? ( internal photo required)
Laminated schematic at mains ?

 

[heliosfa]

AC cable goes out through a hole in the wall and straight up the exterior wall with no conduit (another pic, sorry they are all coming out sideways, no easy way to rotate them on an iPad). The sparky struggled to clip the cable to the wall as it is pebbledash and all of the nails are not in completely.



I'll have a look at the cable size tomorrow, but externally it is ~10mm in diameter. The run is about 10 to 15m in length.

the loft gets fairly warm in summer.

no electrical cert has been left - in fact no documentation has been left except for a sheet telling me that I will get MCS cert and proof of owner ship in the post, and a part-filled FIT application form for their recommended FiT supplier.




Re. The inverter, install documentation listed the inverter model as an "afore".

funnily enough, I have just had a voicemail from their accounts department asking me to call them on Monday re. BACS payment...

 

[MCS Renewables]

You need to find out the actual cable size of the AC wiring. Isolate then take cover off generation meter and photograph wiring so we can establish cable size , put cover back then re energise. The generation meter is the one without the "generation meter" label !

Get actual model of inverter and go online and locate installation manual, check minimum recommended cable size for AC .

Check quote to see if correct inverter was fitted. ( IMO ...Afore is only fit for mounting in a skip and as previously noted is a strange choice for these modules)

 

[heliosfa]

Ok, will do - tomorrow is set aside for fully documenting the install.

other an photos of the dangling DC, DC cable entry and mounting brackets and everything else asked for in the thread, is there any other info that would be helpful?

I've been having a look at renewable rescue - is there any issue with me involving you/them before I have paid the balance?


i just want to say thanks again - you are all being really helpful.


p.s. is anyone able to give me a rough ballpark figure of how much a 10-panel sun power system with decent inverter installed would be? Just to give me a yard-stick for how cheap/ripoff their price was.

 

[MCS Renewables]

You cannot involve Renewable Rescue until you have given the original installers the opportunity of putting the project right. It's very long winded so you are better off trying to sort it out without going legal. One of the companies a customer had serious issues with just changed its name and re registered and dumped the mess onto RECC.

If you keep supplying photos and information to the forum you can probably come up with a full list of issues and get them all dealt with yourself or get your money back.

As a guide between £6000-£7000 including VAT and EPC .
Includes German SMA inverter and sunny beam

 

[heliosfa]

OK, I have got the photos from my other camera and I have taken a lot more. I've also done a bit more digging and some reading of the install guide from MCS so sorry for the very long post(s).

First up: photos of the physical install.

First picture: one of the brackets going up. I didn't see any tile notching or weather sealing, not to say it didn't happen.


Brackets on the roof - looking quite uneven. Looking at them, they seem a little closer together than my joists?


The actual panels - I did discretely check that they said Sunpower on the back when they were stacked up here.


A couple of the roofer. he looks a little unstable up there...



The DC cables under the pannels have been left dangling like this, with loops and all by the looks:


This appears to be where the entry occurs for three of the DC cables at least - between a bracket and a tile. (sorry for the fuz, a tree decided to get in the way as I was taking the photo)



Inside the loft, there are scome screws sticking out of the joists and it looks like one of the joists has a cracked edge:

 

[heliosfa]

Second up, electrical install.

The DC cable is 4mm^2 and marked as "Solara Photovoltaics Cable 1x4.0mm^2 PV1-F 06/1 KV UV ROHS CE TUB 2PF0 1169/08.07 R609039880". Loop length from inverer to panels to inverter could be 10m to 15m for the top row and 15m to 20m for the bottom row. This is assuming that they were wired up in two strings as discussed with the top 4 pannels on the first string and the bottom 6 pannels on the second string.

The black 3-core AC cable going outthe wall and straight up looks like 2.5mm^2 and is marked "Pesco MN IEMMEQU < HAR> HO5VV-F 3G2.5". The total run length is in the region of 10m to 15m.


The DC cable entry into the property is achieved through a hole made with a hammer in the material under the tiles. They also appear to have made a second hole for some reason? Sticking my fingers into the hole, i could feel the cables pressed between tiles. One of the cables goes in the opposite direction to the other three. During the rain and wind we had last night, there was a lot of wind coming through the hole.


Inside the DC isolator there is a significant amount of exmosed conductor, a number of frayed wires and the gromet securing ring for one of the entry points has undone itself or was never done up:


The Inverter is a SamilPower SolarRiver 3680TL. It is rated at 3.68KW (isn't this too large as it should be 80% to 100% of the panel capacity?) with a DC operating voltage range of 100-550V and a nominal operating voltage of 260V. Inverter max DC input is 20A and max AC output is 16A


The AC cable drop down the outside wall is completely unprotected and has been badly clipped (the sparky was getting very frustrated with the wall, saying that if he carried on he might hit the wall with the hammer in frustration as he could not get the nails into the pebble dash). One of the clips relased in the wind yesterday. The cable entry hole into the property does not appear to have been sealed in any way:



The export meter has been installed so that you cannot compltely move the protective cover out of the way. Cable looks like 2.5mm^2 and the Earth has been joined with a floating chocolate block.



Inside the "SolarDB" there is more exposed copper on the un-isolatable tails (luckily this one is the Neutral) and there are no shutters covering up the screw terminals. There is also frayed copper on the neutral feed to the export meter. The entry point in the bottom of the "SolarDB" cover is much larger than it needs to be - he broke out all of the snap-pieces across the bottom.


I think that that is everything.

 

[MCS Renewables]

Woeful, especially the non fixings into the timber as that must greatly affect the wind risks.

Do not let them back on site again as you have already let them return to put the faults right once.

I would not pay them the £5K balance, although offer them a goodwill payment of £200 on a credit card as then the entire invoice amount and project is covered by the credit card insurance as advised on a similar thread.

They are NAPIT members , NAP 17166 so make a complaint here : - NAPIT - complaints
Direct NAPIT to this thread so they know you this complaint cannot be swept under the carpet.
Get them to send out there own MCS assessor, they have one based in Southampton.
There will be no charge.
When fully satisfied later on put your comments on here so that NAPIT get fair feedback for dealing with the matter.

Send the CEO of RECC an email marked complaint here :- [email protected]
Send her a link to this thread, she loves the fact that installers on this forum are having to police the industry, as the organisation she fronts seems impotent.
(When fully satisfied later on, or not put your comments on here so that RECC get some feedback for dealing with the matter.)

Also start an MCS complaint here : Microgeneration Certification Scheme - Complaints

Make sure you keep copies of all of the paperwork you have received from the company as a customer complaint should trigger an automatic MCS audit. They should also get someone out to go through your entire "Project".

If you are feeling very vindictive send the photos of the idiot stood on the roof to the HSE asking if one man working on the roof with a ladder that obviously has no one footing it is permitted, and comment on how he carried the panels up whilst maintaining a three point of contact on the ladder and ask where we can purchase the invisible safety harnesses as lots of us on this forum would like them.

You can get a RIDDOR form here , How to make a RIDDOR report - RIDDOR - HSE , your photos are great evidence .