pulling main fuse

[dean7828]

hi just wondering if you can become qualified to pulling a main fuse so to isolate a distribution board, i know its supposed to be done by the suppliers, is there anyway around this?

thanks in advance

 

[J@mes]

Just do it, you are never going to get prosecuted for safely isolating an installation prior to work.

IMO of course.

 

[malcolmsanford]

Legally you can't pull the fuse and there is always a great debate about this. As far as becoming qualified then the only way would be to join a DNO.

Do electricians pull fuses, then that it up to the individual electrician but again if you do then it can be classed as tampering. How is that for fence sitting.

 

[Paul.M]

Most of the time they have already fallen off before you get there

 

[IQ Electrical]

hi just wondering if you can become qualified to pulling a main fuse so to isolate a distribution board, i know its supposed to be done by the suppliers, is there anyway around this?

thanks in advance

Suppliers have their own requirements, Scottish Power SOMETIMES allow this after attending their half day £145.00 course:

Course Details
Course Code A3012
Course Title A3012 - Insertion & Removal of LV cut out fuses - Half day
Who Should Attend This course is aimed at personnel who have responsibility to carry out electrical duties associated with ScottishPowers Service positions: Whilst this course also includes the insertion, removal and replacement of ScottishPowers’s cut-out fuses on unmetered supplies, it should be noted that this course does not automatically lead to an authorisation to work on ScottishPowers’s network or apparatus. Authorisation has to be obtained from the Authorisation Section within EnergyNetworks
Objectives

• State and outline their legal duties
• Appreciate the principles of electrical safety
• Apply safe systems of work
• Apply safe systems of work such as risk assessment
• Safely Install and Remove LV Cut Out Fuses

Programme

• Legal requirements
• Practical tests
• Assessment
• Supply systems
• Risk assessment
• Types of faults

Subject to VAT Yes at 20%

I agree with J@mes.....

 

[dean7828]

cool thanks guys I guess ill pull it and plead ignorant, it was already like that officer!

 

[Paul.M]

If you do find the seal on the floor just make sure to put something in so it can't just open when someone goes into the cupboard for the mop and bucket etc.

 

[gennyop]

Buy some meter seals from a meter supply company - they are quite cheap !

 

[mayfair]

thought we just had that problem here in Spain, I always thought it was the heat that was rotting the seals on the fuses, Thats what always happens here, They just fall apart when you touch them with a pair a cutters ........he he

 

[mbga9pgf]

12 Electrical / Gas Meter Security Seals + Wire Bargain on eBay (end time 11-Jan-11 21:16:06 GMT)

 

[mbga9pgf]

Even better

100 Electric TaxiTachograph Meter Security Tamper Seals on eBay (end time 06-Feb-11 14:12:25 GMT)

 

[telectrix]

i usually find that the seals have been eaten by killer whales!

 

[mbga9pgf]

Or clubbed

 

[telectrix]

either way, you only got to stamp on the floor for the fuse to pop out.

 

[Des 56]

cool thanks guys I guess ill pull it and plead ignorant, it was already like that officer!

Ah, We got him. dean has admitted on an open forum that he intends to interfere with dno equipment
There's enough witnesses here for me to collect the reward money for shopping him I expect

 

[mogga]

I for one wish ADVICE on pulling of DNO fuses wasnt taken so lightly series7 fuses are "pullable" although I havent seen anyone mention what to do with the bit hold the fuse carrier fits in but without seeing what it is the person intends to pull I wouldnt advise it Some of the older style bakolite ones can crumble or crack the backing when pulled older cast heads can have exposed live parts before fuse removal and when the fuse is removed this leaves a large expanse of exposed live

From the other side DNOs should run courses for electricians and give them a method of reporting other than the way it is atthe moment with every DNO having its own set of rules and methods of what is essentialy Isolation

 

[mbga9pgf]

As an aside, before working on the neutral block from the supply, after testing for live, do people recommend creating a temporary earth path to neutral prior to working it in case a fault occurs on the neutral? I know we need to treat neutral as live, but as there is no isolation other than neutral, how can we decrease risk whilst working a supply neutral?

 

[IQ Electrical]

Do you work for a supplier?

 

[mbga9pgf]

No. but I am working on the consumer side here, not the supply side.

 

[IQ Electrical]

No. but I am working on the consumer side here, not the supply side.

You were talking about working on the 'supply neutral' I don't understand your question, you say 'there is no isolation other than neutral' I'm lost, please explain.

 

[mbga9pgf]

Disregard Sorry. I was refering to there being no isolation (pulled fuse in this case) on the neutral like there is on the live. Other than testing for live, I was wondering if there were any temporary extra precautions to take in case the neutral dveloped a fault.

 

[the pict]

One thought if it's old and grotty looking be wary not the first time its all fell apart luckily I carry a new one also make damn sure theres no load on it had a few fizzles and crackles in my time a pair of VDE rated gloves (dry ones) for the sus looking ones you do not want to be left holding the ends of the holder whilst the plastic crumbles like toast in yer hand
Pict

 

[malcolmsanford]

Disregard Sorry. I was refering to there being no isolation (pulled fuse in this case) on the neutral like there is on the live. Other than testing for live, I was wondering if there were any temporary extra precautions to take in case the neutral dveloped a fault.

There isn't really, it's the same situation when working within the installation the chances of a neutral fault occuring and you only open the protection device at the CU The only thing you could do is fit a double pole 100amp isolator in the tails from the meter. That way you will get the isolation on your neutral. A Wylex REC 2 is perhaps the most popular as below

REC 2 isolator - Compare prices on Twenga.co.uk

But pulling a DNO fuse is not only illigal, but as others have pointed out it can be quite scarey if it's an old head, there is a really good chance you will create more problems that you solve.

I would recommend in your position fit an isolator and tail it 25mm^ . One set to your CU and the other set to your Meter and call the DNO. It's not expensive in the scheme of things and often if it's an older head they will replace free of charge, and if they do they may well upgrade your fuse free of charge as well.

 

[Paul.M]

The law and regs need to be changed on this matter. How about in the up coming amendments or the next we ask for this to be addressed. Let's say a new reg/law:- The main protective fuse may be withdrawn without notifying the DNO if that person has proved his competency of save isolation by being a member of any scheme. (not part p)

This way everyone's happy, the scheme provider can sell the seals to us.

 

[malcolmsanford]

Unfortunately Paul the DNO don't work to the Regs so I don't think it could be addresssed in them.

I remember a couple of years back there was talk of the DNO allowing electricians to pull the main fuse after a risk assement was taken and there was no sign of previous tampering. It was along the lines of you got a supply of 10 temporary seals from the DNO with an electronic form to fill out. These seals were numbered and you only got another 10 when you had filled out the 10 forms with the customers details. The DNO would then go along at a later date to seal properly.

I'm not sure what happened about this, if it ever did take off as I'm not involved in this anymore. Maybe one of the other lads might have more info on it.

Lol mate how's the head this morning.

 

[Paul.M]

Drinking cherry coke for the past hour, don't feel good. Helping Phil out with a small job later, thank god it dosent involve pulling main fuse or ladders. Not well

 

[malcolmsanford]

Ah the evils of drink, be careful mate whatever the job is

 

[Paul.M]

Ah the evils of drink, be careful mate whatever the job is

Thanks for your concern but I'm one if those people that won't even drive if I don't think I'm legal to never mind gu up a ladder. It's not until late morning, plenty of time for a fry up.

 

[telectrix]

Ah the evils of drink, be careful mate whatever the job is

I made a New Year resolution that I'm not going to drink anymore. I'm not going to drink any less either!

 

[Des 56]

I cant ever see the suppliers giving an official nod of approval for breaking and replacing seals

I think from their viewpoint,allowing such an action,even to competent sparks, will open the possibility of them being sued by someone after an accident,whereas that could not occur at present

So in practice,they are happy with the present, though very unoficial stance of regularly announcing that it is illegal,it must not be done,yet in a whisper employing a procedure to have them isolate and re energise which is so long and drawn out, that its nigh on impractical to adhere to their rules,they then turn a unofficial blind eye to the tampering we undertake,barking a lot without ever biting

This is bourne out by the question,would or has a judge ever convicted a person of isolating a supply whilsy working on the installation without the suppliers authority >
I believe the answer is no and neither would any court entertain such a charge
The suppliers would be in a mess if they did attempt prosecution and it was thrown out,so they are content with the staus quo

 

[IQ Electrical]

I couldn't have put it better, what's in it for the suppliers? Nothing.

 

[Mr.Si]

This has been an interesting read for me as when my CU is upgraded, I've also decided to have a 100A rated rotary isolator to be installed before the CU (but after the main fuse). Meaning I can lock off at isolator and not touce the DNO's fuse.

However, my course tutor always said that cutting the seal on the main fuse and pulling the main fuse is OK. It was if you cut the meter seal, this is a big no no as it may then look like you've tampered with the meter readings to turn it back.

 

[IQ Electrical]

That's course tutors for you, opinion mixes with fact plus a bit of rumour stirred in and then it's passed around.

 

[Burnt Fingers]

I have never seen a sealed cut out fuse, honest.

 

[Burnt Fingers]

However I have a pair of Knipex Nylon Fuse pulling pliers for old Lucy's - they are prone to disintegration

 

[roboze]

wow i must have been lucky to have always worked on installations where someone must have already of removed the seals!!

 

[michl]

Hi guys, I want to change the consumer unit in my business. I can't turn off the supply to change the existing CU without pulling the supplier's fuses. I phoned supplier who quoted £80 to put in an isolating switch. Does this seem like a fair price? I was wondering if I should leave this job for a while as I've seen that suppliers are now changing all domestic meters to digital ones due to a change in Scottish law. Anyone know if this will apply to commercial premises as well? I'd think that they might put in an isolating switch for free if they had to change the meter.