quick info on car charging port

[Doomed]

Wiring up a series of offices in an converted factory unit, all well and good.
They have asked us to install a car charging port for one of the managers cars, we have never fitted one and have no interest in getting in to fitting them, but we need to do this as a one off.
TNCS, will be approx 5m from the DB.
Any extra point to consider when fitting one of these?
Rolec EV Economy Boost 16A / Type 1 + Boost Button WallPod, EVEB0010 - https://www.yesss.co.uk/heating-ventilation-c5/ev-charging-c1694/charge-points-c1695/rolec-ev-economy-boost-16a-type-1-boost-button-wallpod-eveb0010-p23244

 

[Pete999]

Wiring up a series of offices in an converted factory unit, all well and good.
They have asked us to install a car charging port for one of the managers cars, we have never fitted one and have no interest in getting in to fitting them, but we need to do this as a one off.
TNCS, will be approx 5m from the DB.
Any extra point to consider when fitting one of these?
Rolec EV Economy Boost 16A / Type 1 + Boost Button WallPod, EVEB0010 - https://www.yesss.co.uk/heating-ventilation-c5/ev-charging-c1694/charge-points-c1695/rolec-ev-economy-boost-16a-type-1-boost-button-wallpod-eveb0010-p23244

Get hold of a copy of the CoP for charging points should all be explained within.

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

treat it like a consumer unit, dont forget your rods... if its outside where joe public has access then order it with lock on, or fit secure isolator. they come with a rcbo or rcd depending on how old the unit is, you will need to ensure there is discrimination.
Usually i would feed them with a unprotected mcb then utilise the internal rcd/rcbo protection.
something else you need to mention is that he will be receiving a benefit in kind charging the car at work, so has to pay the correct tax on it... might pay to remind him...
personally the ev:box units are far superior for this sort of thing. there back office tech support is 2nd to none in the sector. also rolec are just rebadged chint!
forgot to add, if you arent too keen on installing one, tell him if he approaches OLEV they will give him a £300 voucher for use with a olev approved installer. which could save him a bit off the price. google OLEV workplace charging scheme.

 

[Zdb]

A commando socket is another option to be used with a portable charger.


Portable Mode 2 16A 62196-2 EVSE with Female Plug with CEE - https://evconnectors.com/portable-ev-charger/portable-mode-2-16amp-62196-2-evse-cee-plug

 

[Steve93]

As above. If being installed outside the unit a tt system must be installed. Should notify DNO within 30 days of install too.

 

[Doomed]

Get hold of a copy of the CoP for charging points should all be explained within.

If I was intending to install them as a regular thing I would, but as a one off I thought I would ask the help of my fellow electricians.
Isn't that what this forum is for?

 

[Doomed]

treat it like a consumer unit, dont forget your rods... if its outside where joe public has access then order it with lock on, or fit secure isolator. they come with a rcbo or rcd depending on how old the unit is, you will need to ensure there is discrimination.
Usually i would feed them with a unprotected mcb then utilise the internal rcd/rcbo protection.
something else you need to mention is that he will be receiving a benefit in kind charging the car at work, so has to pay the correct tax on it... might pay to remind him...
personally the ev:box units are far superior for this sort of thing. there back office tech support is 2nd to none in the sector. also rolec are just rebadged chint!
forgot to add, if you arent too keen on installing one, tell him if he approaches OLEV they will give him a £300 voucher for use with a olev approved installer. which could save him a bit off the price. google OLEV workplace charging scheme.

Thank you, very helpful - rodding will be a pain as its all car park out front

 

[Pete999]

If I was intending to install them as a regular thing I would, but as a one off I thought I would ask the help of my fellow electricians.
Isn't that what this forum is for?

I am helping Doomed, I have never installed one, so my advice would be to read the CoP. Obviously not in this case.
file:///C:/Users/Pete/Desktop/Resources/ChargeNY-Electric-Vehicle-Charging-Station-Installers-Best-Practices.pdf

 

[Doomed]

A commando socket is another option to be used with a portable charger.
View attachment 42907

Portable Mode 2 16A 62196-2 EVSE with Female Plug with CEE - https://evconnectors.com/portable-ev-charger/portable-mode-2-16amp-62196-2-evse-cee-plug

Thank you, but there is already a 'C' form outlet, they want a 'proper' unit

 

[Doomed]

As above. If being installed outside the unit a tt system must be installed. Should notify DNO within 30 days of install too.

Oh great....
Although this is the sort of info I was after, thank you

 

[Doomed]

I am helping Doomed, I have never installed one so my advice would be to read the CoP

OK
Good advice, but not the sort I was after.....
Thanks anyway.

 

[Midwest]

There's another current thread on a similar vein, posted there about this I found; no idea about ev charging, but noticed the no rod needed for PME?

 

[Richard Burns]

A charging point must have 30mA RCD protection, preferably type A RCD to detect DC faults as well, often in the unit itself.
Internal charging points in a garage etc. can use the TNS supply. Where the charging point is outside a building or the car is outside whilst it is being charged the practical difficulties in complying with the requirements for connection to a TNCS supply mean that it is generally only practical to provide a TT earthed charging point. The EV pod document above seems to state that it can be used with TNCS supplies but references a regulation that is not in BS7671 and does not disconnect the supply in the case of a fault which is what is specified as required in BS7671, though I would have said from the description that it would be a safe arrangement, perhaps a deviation from the regulations in a manner that is as safe as prescribed in BS7671?
A documented risk assessment should be provided if it is TT that demonstrates that there are no conductive parts of the TCNS installation simultaneously accessible to touch, I think, within 10m (really!) of the car and charging point. The charging point should also be labelled "TT System adopted for ELECTRIC VEHICLE CHARGING EQUIPMENT circuit. Do NOT connect to the PME earth". Notify the DNO that the point has been installed, I seem to remember you need the MPAN number for the supply.
I may well be out of date now so ready to be corrected.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

That’s type B, not type A.
My understanding, is that it is charging points for use by the general public which are required to be TT, not those intended for private use.

 

[Octopus]

As above. If being installed outside the unit a tt system must be installed. Should notify DNO within 30 days of install too.

Notify them what and how?

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Notify them what and how?

Fill out a form.
UK Power Networks - Electric Vehicle notification form - https://www.ukpowernetworks.co.uk/internet/en/our-services/electric-vehicle-charging/online-form/

 

[Richard Burns]

That’s type B, not type A.
My understanding, is that it is charging points for use by the general public which are required to be TT, not those intended for private use.

I think according to BS7671, but it may vary in the COP, type B is only prescribed if the DC residual current is known to be >6mA.
I can find no reference to private individuals being less prone to electric shock, where does this information come from? I know that apparently private dwellings are apparently less prone to electric shock because of the (possibly soon to be removed) exclusion of PME restriction for a single dwelling.

To doomed, also read Section 722 and ensure the car charging point is a dedicated circuit.

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

@Midwest unless the manufacturer specifically says the charger can be installed on pme without a rod outside then one is needed. even tns needs a rod as trying to get the dno to guarantee there network as not being pme half way down the road is near impossible. you can get away with putting one in a garage where there is no extraneous parts, much likle exporting pme in general. but this will all change come 18th apparently.
I would suggest the OP @Doomed has a look at the EV box stuff, as its better than rolec and if its mounted on a wall then it can have the earth cable fed to the rod via conduit, same if on a pedestal in the car park, run sufficient swa and separate earth back to a suitable spot to sink the rods. As no matter how you install it, if its not on the wall of the building then you are running suitable cable to it, its not much more work to add a correctly sized separate earth cable back to a more convenient spot for the rods.

 

[Octopus]

What a mess ...... regs like this should be black and white and in BS 7671 ....

 

[Midwest]

@Midwest unless the manufacturer specifically says the charger can be installed on pme without a rod outside then one is needed.

Thats what POD are suggesting.

 

[Midwest]

What a mess ...... regs like this should be black and white and in BS 7671 ....

Apparently thats what the 18th is going to do, allegedly.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Type A and AC RCDs do not detect d.c. faults. In fact d.c. current is used to prevent them from tripping when using the ‘no trip’ function on MFTs.
6mA d.c. is the maximum current at which type A and AC RCDs will continue to operate.
Type B RCDs detect both A.C. and d.c. current.

The information regarding whether an earth electrode is required can be found in BS7671 section 722.

 

[Midwest]

The 18th draft proposal changes to Sec 722 (curtesey IET issue 66) ;

Changes to Section 722
Section 722 (electric vehicle charging installations) provides requirements for the supplies to electric vehicles. There are a number of significant changes in Section 722 of the DPC:

Protection against electric shock
Regulation 722.411.4.1 concerning the use of protective multiple earthing (PME) supply has changed. The exception for a dwelling if none of (i), (ii), or (iii) is reasonably practicable has been deleted. This now means that PME cannot be used unless you meet (i), or (ii), or (iii) of 722.411.4.1. As a reminder of those regulations:

• Regulation 722.411.4.1(i) refers to a situation where a connecting point is supplied from a 3-phase installation used to supply loads other than charging points and where the load is sufficiently well balanced.
• Regulation 722.411.4.1(ii) requires a very low resistance earth electrode to mitigate the effects of an open circuit PEN conductor fault on the supply.
• Regulation 722.411.4.1(iii) refers to protection by a voltage operated device. An important change is that the regulation now makes the point that this device could be included within the charging equipment. It is worth noting that this device will also require an earth electrode.

So whatever POD (my upload) are suggesting, their device will need rodding (if you pardon my expletive)?

 

[Octopus]

^^ and in the real world, cut price installations will be conducted ignoring the regs ..

 

[Octopus]

Fill out a form.
UK Power Networks - Electric Vehicle notification form - https://www.ukpowernetworks.co.uk/internet/en/our-services/electric-vehicle-charging/online-form/

That’s really interesting, and not seen that before ..... wonder how many people on here are aware of that?

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Nice to see VOELCBs making a come back.