removal of main cutout fuse!

[Guest111]

regarding tamperproofing the metering,about 15 years ago in liverpool a lot of the board,head,meter,etc was encased in a plastic cover with a tamperproof mechanism inside and if you tried to remove it it shattered into a load of bits.The DNOknew where they put them so no argument regarding fiddling meters.

 

[Guitarist]

regarding tamperproofing the metering,about 15 years ago in liverpool a lot of the board,head,meter,etc was encased in a plastic cover with a tamperproof mechanism inside and if you tried to remove it it shattered into a load of bits.The DNOknew where they put them so no argument regarding fiddling meters.

Did a lot of tampering go on in Liverpool then?

 

[DNS1]

If the DNO wanted to ensure that their equipment was not tampered with then I am sure there are many ways that they could make it near impossible or if they couldn't do that then they could install some sort of tamper alarm that could only be reset by them.

If they were going to go as far as installing additional kit, they might as well just install an isolator!

The only thing I don't like about isolators is that if they're fitted outside in a meter enclosure, there's nothing to stop pranksters and kids from turning people's electrics off for a "laugh"

At least with the current system, it's only really sparks who have the DNO fuse "fall out" for them... Most DIYers are at least put off by the seals and warning notices...

 

[trev]

another little step down the winding road to the police state....where surveillance and spying is the norm

That is already here mate, the average person just going about their day to day business appears on cctv 300 times a day according to something I saw on Panorama a while back. Councils can use anti terrorism legislation to watch you to make sure you live in the catchment area for the school you want to send your children to. The government's plan to access information about who you contact by phone and email WILL come about, it has only been put on the back burner until they can come up with a way to sell the idea to us because the anti terrorism excuse didn't work.
Just for the record I am not some sort of conspiracy theory idiot

 

[sparks1973]

That is already here mate, the average person just going about their day to day business appears on cctv 300 times a day according to something I saw on Panorama a while back. Councils can use anti terrorism legislation to watch you to make sure you live in the catchment area for the school you want to send your children to. The government's plan to access information about who you contact by phone and email WILL come about, it has only been put on the back burner until they can come up with a way to sell the idea to us because the anti terrorism excuse didn't work.
Just for the record I am not some sort of conspiracy theory idiot

indeed not trev....just a practicing electrician like most others in here....but you have it about right mate....its all about selling an idea to the public.....mandelson and his minions were very good at it....time will show who within this lot is prepared to step up to the job.....hmm, i can think of a few already....

 

[SKY]

If you need to change the meter tails, I guess you have to remove the meter seal!

How does one go about this?

 

[micknew]

side cutters

 

[telectrix]

why don't they just make meters with the left hand ( incomer ) side sealed, and the outgoing pair accessible. or is that too simple?

 

[Plonker 3]

If you need to change the meter tails, I guess you have to remove the meter seal!

How does one go about this?

Contact DNO/ supplier and get them to install a isolator after the meter at a cost to the customer.

 

[Guest111]

why don't they just make meters with the left hand ( incomer ) side sealed, and the outgoing pair accessible. or is that too simple?

Or they could just fit an isolator after the meter,just like we asked for,lol

 

[Plonker 3]

why don't they just make meters with the left hand ( incomer ) side sealed, and the outgoing pair accessible. or is that too simple?

What and miss out on the potential of making money on fitting a isolator!!!

 

[telectrix]

either way would be anb improvement on the current situation. but it's like trying to get a dinosaur to use a computer.

 

[Guitarist]

I must say, we don't have a lot of cctv here in Norfolk... not unless they are hiding the cameras in sugar beet.

 

[sparks1973]

What and miss out on the potential of making money on fitting a isolator!!!

its exactly my point earlier Dillb....come on guys....this `inbuilt` iso they were proposing for the smart meters was never going to happen was it.....and once the DNOs started to cast a bad smell over it n all......it doesn`t matter WHO pays for em to do their 5 mins of graft (even thats a joke)....it doesn`t matter who pays for it...the fact of it is someone has to....either way the DNO gets paid....what is a lot of money for the work done...now, if their fitting a 100A DP iso for that then all well n good.....but for just pulling a bullit...come on....

 

[Guitarist]

its exactly my point earlier Dillb....come on guys....this `inbuilt` iso they were proposing for the smart meters was never going to happen was it.....and once the DNOs started to cast a bad smell over it n all......it doesn`t matter WHO pays for em to do their 5 mins of graft (even thats a joke)....it doesn`t matter who pays for it...the fact of it is someone has to....either way the DNO gets paid....what is a lot of money for the work done...now, if their fitting a 100A DP iso for that then all well n good.....but for just pulling a bullit...come on....

To be fair, Eon do it all for free in my area (though not quickly). Shame that some suppliers seem bent on profit first and foremost....

 

[edexlab]

Haven't got the BGB to hand (I'm working away left it at home)and I'm sure someone's mentioned it before but isn't there a reg which says all circuits/installations must have adequate means of isolation ( I do read the regs just can't quote them verse and number quite yet)

There is a proper procedure in place but everyone knows you can't afford to hang around all day for an Isolation/re energisation so what do most of us do, We turn the load off and remove the fuse illegally, surely this means that the DNO's are contravening the above reg and possibly the EAWR too indirectly by not installing a reasonable means of isolation.

Of course the person pulling the fuse is also breaking the rules too, but my point is the DNO's have a system in place which encourages individuals to remove fuses rather than doing it correctly and having the DNO blokes come out, so this implies that the system is not practicable , so surely the DNO have a legal liability somewhere in all of this, and they can't even feign ignorance as they know it goes on.

And yes I know they are guidelines but is it possible that the DNO would or have had to get their expensive Law departments out of the office and into court to defend their decisions regarding failure to fit an isolator in the event someone gets hurt or worse while illegally pulling a fuse

I'm sure the Coroner would have made a recommendation that Isolators are fitted after the event of a death, I know of at least one case of an electrician being killed in the last 10 years, and by making a recommendation in writing/on public record to an energy company then this would have some legal implications.

On my last assessment I commented to the Area Engineer at the beginning that they had become salesmen rather than promoting safe practice and Professional Electricians because for the first 1/2 hour he promoted the Niceic's services and products ,insurance and the like, and he went on to tell me I was wrong that they do promote their members to the public etc, funny really as I'm also a member of the public and I think I'd notice this, this led to a conversation about the idea to integrate an Isolation switch in the smart meters, in which they failed to convince the decision makers the ENA to do, ok bearing in mind the cost to the manufacturer of a new design and tooling etc I can see how they were stone walled ,the annoying thing is they concentrated on the smart meter isolator issue and should have said ok no isolator in the meter but there is nothing really stopping them from fitting a separate isolator, at the same time as the meter goes in, but apparently they never mentioned this, the Dno's couldn't really argue the expense factor as some already do so ,and still make a very nice profit.

 

[Geordie Spark]

Did a lot of tampering go on in Liverpool then?

If there was, It wouldn't be a much as Sunderland !! :clown:

 

[Guitarist]

Haven't got the BGB to hand (I'm working away left it at home)and I'm sure someone's mentioned it before but isn't there a reg which says all circuits/installations must have adequate means of isolation ( I do read the regs just can't quote them verse and number quite yet)

There is a proper procedure in place but everyone knows you can't afford to hang around all day for an Isolation/re energisation so what do most of us do, We turn the load off and remove the fuse illegally, surely this means that the DNO's are contravening the above reg and possibly the EAWR too indirectly by not installing a reasonable means of isolation.

Of course the person pulling the fuse is also breaking the rules too, but my point is the DNO's have a system in place which encourages individuals to remove fuses rather than doing it correctly and having the DNO blokes come out, so this implies that the system is not practicable , so surely the DNO have a legal liability somewhere in all of this, and they can't even feign ignorance as they know it goes on.

And yes I know they are guidelines but is it possible that the DNO would or have had to get their expensive Law departments out of the office and into court to defend their decisions regarding failure to fit an isolator in the event someone gets hurt or worse while illegally pulling a fuse

I'm sure the Coroner would have made a recommendation that Isolators are fitted after the event of a death, I know of at least one case of an electrician being killed in the last 10 years, and by making a recommendation in writing/on public record to an energy company then this would have some legal implications.

On my last assessment I commented to the Area Engineer at the beginning that they had become salesmen rather than promoting safe practice and Professional Electricians because for the first 1/2 hour he promoted the Niceic's services and products ,insurance and the like, and he went on to tell me I was wrong that they do promote their members to the public etc, funny really as I'm also a member of the public and I think I'd notice this, this led to a conversation about the idea to integrate an Isolation switch in the smart meters, in which they failed to convince the decision makers the ENA to do, ok bearing in mind the cost to the manufacturer of a new design and tooling etc I can see how they were stone walled ,the annoying thing is they concentrated on the smart meter isolator issue and should have said ok no isolator in the meter but there is nothing really stopping them from fitting a separate isolator, at the same time as the meter goes in, but apparently they never mentioned this, the Dno's couldn't really argue the expense factor as some already do so ,and still make a very nice profit.

This is really the point which I have been banging on about for ages...
We MUST work safely, yet there is no means provided by the suppliers for electricians to do so unless they -
a) Break the law and remove the fuse
b) Get the supplier out to remove and replace the fuse. This can be very costly and often takes several weeks.

I am currently in the process of writing to my MP about this, (I know it won't do any good, plus he is on holiday at the moment) but I feel we at least have to try.
When I was an apprentice back in the 80's this was a huge issue, and it still is. I realise that many people are happy to just do it (and fair do's to them), but I hate that we HAVE to break the law if we want to work safely without waiting weeks to do so, and I am disgusted that this ridiculous state of affairs is still going on in a Country which is supposed to pride itself on "doing things by-the-book"!!!

 

[Geordie Spark]

This is really the point which I have been banging on about for ages...
We MUST work safely, yet there is no means provided by the suppliers for electricians to do so unless they -
a) Break the law and remove the fuse
b) Get the supplier out to remove and replace the fuse. This can be very costly and often takes several weeks.

I am currently in the process of writing to my MP about this, (I know it won't do any good, plus he is on holiday at the moment) but I feel we at least have to try.
When I was an apprentice back in the 80's this was a huge issue, and it still is. I realise that many people are happy to just do it (and fair do's to them), but I hate that we HAVE to break the law if we want to work safely without waiting weeks to do so, and I am disgusted that this ridiculous state of affairs is still going on in a Country which is supposed to pride itself on "doing things by-the-book"!!!

Well done !!

Maybe it won't do any good, but it has a better chance than the constant posts made about this subject on this board.

I'm on first name terms with my MP who I have written to & E-mailed about many concerns I have had over the years - the latest being the bunch of charlatans who are collectively known as ATOS - and he has almost always got himself involved. He hasn't always been able to achieve the desired result, but at least WE have tried !!

MPs work for us and are paid by us so we should be reminding them of these facts & kicking them where it hurts when the fail us.

At the end of the day, it's up to us to get what we deserve.

 

[Fin170]

So they're going to catch you by detecting power loss to your smart meter?

Wonder how that will work by dropping the tails out of the customer side of the meter, those tails being your responsibility anyway :detective: