Retrofit smoke/heat alarms pricing help?

[Smudge]

Afternoon all, i'm after some help if people can pass opinion please. I have been approached by a letting agent to retrofit smoke and heat alarms to properties. They want a couple of extra detectors in each property by the end of the year. There are 150 flats/houses in total.

My main questions are...they said other spark have previously suggested radio bases instead of hard wiring between detectors? I've never done this before, does it comply with regs? Can anyone suggest a decent manufacturer and model they have used?...I'm not too keen on this method tbh, but if the tenant won't allow floorboards up/trunking/chases etc then could be a possibility.

And now the BIG question...they want a price per detector. This is a big headache for me as i've always priced job by job. If it was a normal mains detector, i was thinking supply and fit around £65
mark?? obviously some would be a lot more difficult than others, it's a gamble that would hopefully work out over the properties. Radio detector price would be different. Any thoughts??

 

[davesparks]

Aico alarms are generally considered to be the best on the market for this application.
It's not up to the tenant to decide what they will or won't have done, that is up to the landlord.

 

[Octopus]

You need to be careful with what ever you suggest because the unit, whether its radio or hard wired will need power.

Radio bases may be attractive BUT if the neutrals are at the switches powering the bases WILL be tricky as you won't be able to get the power from the lights......

 

[Smudge]

Thanks. If the property already has mains detectors, and i were to add in a couple of the radio detectors, i assume the originals will need converted to be radio compatible? Having a quick look online, these are around £80-£90 each so my price would have to be around the £120 mark each and take the gamble on how its wired. It's not my normal job i'd be interested in but if i get it, getting in with this letting company could be a good little earner.

 

[tazz]

As Murdoch has pointed out having no unswitched N & L at the fitting can be a big problem.
You need forward a method statement, showing you may need to install trunking & possible wireless bases. And reasons why. This will show your intentions and reasons for cost. Along with your terms & conditions, this will show you have thought this contract out, and understand the project. This will also cover your backside.
Wireless bases are fine for small domestic, with the added bonus of being able to mix with wired link bases. So you could have wired linked detection on ground floor with last being radio base, and an upstairs wired system with one radio base, and all would work together.

 

[Smudge]

Thanks, to be honest it's put the fear into me a little. I'll sit on it for the weekend. Here is an extract from my quote (before i send it). In your opinion, do you think this covers me for these eventualities?

Please note that the preferred option would be to install mains hard wired detectors at every instance possible. This may involve lifting of carpets, floorboards, chasing walls and/or check holes in ceilings. Furniture may also need moved for access. Every care would be taken to keep damage as minimal as possible. White plastic mini trunking may be an option if necessary.

In the instance where mains radio detectors were to be used, a permanent feed would be required to the bases which may not always be possible from light fittings dependent of the existing wiring system of the property. If this were the case, the afore mentioned potential damage would also have to be considered a possibility. An existing mains detector would have to be converted to radio compatible models.

 

[davesparks]

In my opinion that lot covers you for having you're thrown in the bin.
Make your mind up about what you are quoting for and wrote it in a good standard of English.

 

[Leesparkykent]

what about bonding?

 

[tazz]

You need to be stating how you are installing not giving excuses. This is not hard, it just requires thought and common sense. Other bidders may just go in with a quote, and then later be asked for a method statement to justify there Quotation.

METHOD STATEMENT..All installed cables shall be 1.5mm T&E, and install within the building fabric where practical to do so. White plastic trunking will be installed in areas were building fabric is inaccessable. All cables will be supported within the said trunking using steel support clips. Larger runs or inaccessable areas, may require radio bases installed to retain decor.

 

[Smudge]

Thanks Tazz. My issue is that they want a generic price for each detector fully knowing that some might be easy, some difficult, makes their lives easier i suppose. I like the method statement stuff to cover me, very helpful. I'll revisit it on monday.

 

[Englishman]

You need to be stating how you are installing not giving excuses. This is not hard, it just requires thought and common sense. Other bidders may just go in with a quote, and then later be asked for a method statement to justify there Quotation.

METHOD STATEMENT..All installed cables shall be 1.5mm T&E, and install within the building fabric where practical to do so. White plastic trunking will be installed in areas were building fabric is inaccessable. All cables will be supported within the said trunking using steel support clips. Larger runs or inaccessable areas, may require radio bases installed to retain decor.

Sod 1.5mm cable, 1mm is perfectly adequate.

 

[tazz]

Sod 1.5mm cable, 1mm is perfectly adequate.

Choice is yours

 

[Leesparkykent]

I personally use 1.0mm on smokes as sometimes getting 2x1.5mm in to an aico base can be a pita. BS7671 table 52.3 does say minimum of 1.5mm for power though. Or would you class it as signalling and control?

 

[davesparks]

I personally use 1.0mm on smokes as sometimes getting 2x1.5mm in to an aico base can be a pita. BS7671 table 52.3 does say minimum of 1.5mm for power though. Or would you class it as signalling and control?

The devices are designed and intended for connection to a lighting circuit so it's fair to treat them as such in my opinion.
Or else it's a perfectly justifiable departure from 7671 if not.

 

[davesparks]

Thanks Tazz. My issue is that they want a generic price for each detector fully knowing that some might be easy, some difficult, makes their lives easier i suppose. I like the method statement stuff to cover me, very helpful. I'll revisit it on monday.

So you price it accordingly, you will break even on some and make up the difference on others.

 

[LankyWill]

I had a council job wiring smoke detectors in every room in the house LD2. I was on my tod and managed 2x 4 beds a day, sometimes i found fed lights which was a dream but more often than not people feed switches. As it was council property i grabbed my 4'' holesaw and went to town on the ceiling with cable rods. There was an onsite maintenance team for patching. I was issued with Aico radio link bases and Aico Ionisation, optical,heat alarms. If you use Aico remember to house code them and fit Aico alarms to Aico radio bases. It was a good earner £200 a day for 6 hours work shame it only lasted 2 months...