shower fitted by friend

[Baker1988]

hi all just a quick question my girlfriend dad has just had a shower fitted cos his old one has broke (just a like for like)it was just a friend of his who did it for him dont think he is a spark just had some experiance i have checked it at the request of my girlfriend as she does not trust her dads friend it all seems fine there is not test sheets with it so i did a few tests zs and ir and all seems fine the only problem i have got is that the board has no rcd it is a old board but not really old it has mcbs and even a few rcbos buti told him he should really have a rcd on the shower circuit but i would probily be easier to get a rcbo for the circuit but he does not want to shell out the £27 for it so my girlfriend said she will buy it if i think it needs it just so he is safe so what do you all think does it need one i think it does but thought i would ask you lot first

 

[Richard]

If thats his attitude then I probibly wouldn't bother. You've told him. He can't be bothered (and for the sake of £27!!!), why should you be!!

 

[Gavin A]

ours is on a dual pole RCD as per manufacturers instructions (ie not a single pole RCBO), fitted via a seperate garage unit set up on the circuit. I'd check the instructions, then it should be simple enough to convince anyone that it should be on an RCD.

 

[Baker1988]

Hi me my self I am not that bothered its my girlfriend who is a bit worried I have checked the manufacturers data and it says it should have a rcd fitted either on the whole installation or the individual circuit doesn't say any thing about a double pole rcd even though that is usually what they are I always thought on a rcbo that the neutral switched of any way as you put the neutral into the rcbo and then connect the rcbo wire to neutral

 

[baazab]

if i was you just leave it as it is cz your girl friend dad knows hes is not sparky,propely few drinks to the the work,job done

 

[baazab]

to do it right its a notify work ,need rcd ,you never said the size the shower or the cable ,plus you don't know how the cable run under the carpet !!!!!!

 

[Spudnik]

Interesting topic chaps.

Legally, replacing a like for like shower is not notifiable, nor do you need "quals".

However, if the manufacturers instructions state that it should be protected via RCD (which 99.9% now are), then this installation would be.

 

[Baker1988]

Hi yeah it is a few pints job and the cable is 10mm twin and cpc and a 8.5kw shower on a 40 amp mcb and the cable is eun in conduit up into the loft where it been layer over the top of the insulation then down into conduit down the cobard to the consumer unit so the run is fine I can see all of the cable I am not bothered about it I just would just like it to be safe for him

 

[Baker1988]

Interesting topic chaps.

Legally, replacing a like for like shower is not notifiable, nor do you need "quals".

However, if the manufacturers instructions state that it should be protected via RCD (which 99.9% now are), then this installation would be.

Hi so should I put a rcbo in as a rcd would be more messing about and cost

 

[richy3333]

RCBO £20-£30 or the price of a life if someone dies? Some people are so short sighted. As others have said, you can take a horse to water...

 

[Baker1988]

RCBO £20-£30 or the price of a life if someone dies? Some people are so short sighted. As others have said, you can take a horse to water...

Yeah I totally agree

 

[Spudnik]

RCBO would be fine, however, fitting a pair of 10mm TE tails into the top of it might be a challenge.

 

[Richard Burns]

The install as a maintenance replacement is OK, however in order to meet the current regulations a 30mA RCD is required for all circuits in a room containing a bath or shower.

In order to upgrade the circuit to current regulations then an RCD would be required and there is no doubt that this would make the installation safer.
However the current installation is no less safe than it was before the replacement shower was fitted.

I would fit an RCBO into the board for that circuit if one will fit(RCBOs do not switch the neutral, you need the neutral in the RCBO so that you are not connecting to the neutral bar and causing the RCBO to trip a la shared neutral).
But do you then RCBO the bathroom lighting circuit and the towel heater as well?

However if the owner does not want it there is nothing you can do, unless your girlfriend arranges it for you.

 

[Guest55]

But do you then RCBO the bathroom lighting circuit and the towel heater as well?

well no , youre not working on these circuits to replace a shower , nor are we obliged to bring the entire installation upto current standards when you're only working one 1 part of it.

but RB's comment on leaving the install no unsafer than before is bang on the money.

 

[Spudnik]

You do not have to RCD/RCBO any other circuits at all in the bathroom, only the one in question.

If the manufacturers instructions say that the shower must be protected via 30mA RCD, then this will override BS7671 etc.

This is a replacement, not a new install.

Edit: biff beat me to it!

 

[Guest55]

Edit: biff beat me to it!

why not use the omnipotent powers of admin to slip your post in before mine ,thus taking all the glory ;-)

 

[ayjay]

buy him one for christmas

 

[Swicade]

The girlfriend is paying for the bits which will improve the safety of the circuit in question....only expense to you is time to do the job which will likely be a freebie BUT take into account how grateful your girlfriend will be (nudge, nudge, wink, wink, say no more) i'd suggest stop thinking/talking about it and just slip it in (the rcd protection that is.....)

 

[GLENNSPARK]

hi all just a quick question my girlfriend dad has just had a shower fitted cos his old one has broke (just a like for like)it was just a friend of his who did it for him dont think he is a spark just had some experiance i have checked it at the request of my girlfriend as she does not trust her dads friend it all seems fine there is not test sheets with it so i did a few tests zs and ir and all seems fine the only problem i have got is that the board has no rcd it is a old board but not really old it has mcbs and even a few rcbos buti told him he should really have a rcd on the shower circuit but i would probily be easier to get a rcbo for the circuit but he does not want to shell out the £27 for it so my girlfriend said she will buy it if i think it needs it just so he is safe so what do you all think does it need one i think it does but thought i would ask you lot first

whats the age of the board got to do with the compliance of the circuit?...lol..
jesus wept...lol...

 

[Paul.M]

A few things to say about this one.

Was it a requirement for rcd protection at the time of the original install?

RCBO's are single or double pole, depends on which one you buy.

If you did a like for like socket face change on a 1970's install and the Ze, Zs was ok, would you demand that circuit to be on a rcd? Whats the difference for a shower??? (apart from its a shower and is now deemed dangerous and we would all like to see it on a rcd/rcbo)

Manufacturers instructions supersede the 7671 as said before, what do the instructions say?

 

[Paul.M]

Taken from the ESC FAQ page.....

"Q2.10If I replace an existing electric shower, do I now have to provide RCD protection for it?

No, unless RCD protection is required by the manufacturer’s installation instructions, or a new circuit is required (to provide for increased load, for example).
Regulation number(s)

• 134.1.1
• 510.3"

I'd still fit an RCBO (double pole) or a stand alone rcd, we all would.

 

[SPARTYKUS]

My moneys in the instructions for the replacement shower insisting an RCD is fitted.


Therefore.....even though its a replacement, an RCD is now required. Because thats what it says in the book of the one you are fitting!

I'd take swicades tack. Sort it out yourself & reap the (eh hem) reward.

As mentioned will be a pig to get the 10mm in the Rcbo reliably, always is a game.

Took two hours doing an isolator (ceiling) once. Fitted like a glove and was a work of art (was a good paying job!). Better than ramming it up desperately screwing it all together, only to hear the sickening crunch & crack of a shattering patress.....arrrggghh

 

[GLENNSPARK]

RCBO would be fine, however, fitting a pair of 10mm TE tails into the top of it might be a challenge.

depends what board it is dunnit....
electrium..yes
BG..no

 

[richy3333]

^^^ Somebody watched Star Wars yesterday afternoon

Never had a problem on a Hager RCBO either

 

[SPARTYKUS]

^^^ Somebody watched Star Wars yesterday afternoon

Never had a problem on a Hager RCBO either

Han Solo, or reality? A fat bald bloke with red eyes?

Chose correctly

 

[GLENNSPARK]

how long do you give it then before someone turns up with the `jabba` avatar?..

 

[Deleted member 26818]

A couple of points.
When replacing items of equipment, it does not have to be on a like for like basis for it not to be notifiable.
As such you can replace an 8.5kW shower with a 10.5kW shower as long as the wiring is appropriately sized for the load.
You can also replace CPDs higher or lower rated, or even of a differnt type without notification.
It's when the wiring is altered that it becomes notifiable.