some people wont listen!!

[p11jor]

Company i subby for have sent me to a hotel

5 star city centre one 90rooms very nice.....

they have decided to fit air conditioning in the old side of it so i have the task of running in the electrical side of it.

the problem i have is that currently this hotel is pulling even at the quietest of times 180 amps per phase the supply we have coming in is in duct and run around the building is swa 185mm ally which without my regs infront of me can take about 190amps per phase.

This armour is warm (not hot) just warm to touch now problem i have is being asked to connect up yet another db for the air con( already have 21 of them dotted about the hotel) now the rating of this a/c all in all will be around 420 so if i balance the phases out nicely we will be looking at 140amps per phase extra meaning even at the quietest of times there will be 100+ amps per phase overload......just imagine at a busy time say 7pm or better still xmas time......this cable will cook.

i have informed all relevent people above of this but they dont seemed bothed and reckon it will be ok

what would you do? I am toying with the idea of letting them connect up and getting some paperwork with some witness signitures and getting the company to sign it to take resposibility away from myself?

 

[Geordie Spark]

I remember one morning in the early 1960s leaving the house for my very first day at work and my Dad saying to me: "Just do exactly what they tell you no matter how stupid you think it is as long as it's not dangerous. If you think it is dangerous, ask them to put it in writing - and sign it!)

 

[shanky887614]

I remember one morning in the early 1960s leaving the house for my very first day at work and my Dad saying to me: "Just do exactly what they tell you no matter how stupid you think it is as long as it's not dangerous. If you think it is dangerous, ask them to put it in writing - and sign it!)

if you don't get it in writing then the blame wil fall squarely on your head and if the place burns down or someone dies you will get the blame

 

[trev]

Email them with your concerns and keep a copy of it mate. Spell out all your concerns and reference them to the regs if and where possible, put in the email that you are not prepared to put your name on the cert confirming that everything is acceptable.
Oh, and start looking for a new job because they may want to sack you.

 

[GMES]

Agree with Geordie, if you have expressed your concerns and they still want to take a gamble , then get it in writing as you say then crack on and take their cash. And you will probably also get the extra work to do it right when it goes wrong , win win situation :clap:

 

[driverman]

Years ago i worked for what is now called a DNO . Co-op was having air con installed and existing 1 phase meter position moved to new location. Electrician mentioned that air con being installed, so I said what about additional loading, 3 phase may be reqd.
Nope 1 phase will be OK........No it wasn't. 6 months later road /paths dug up......3 phase installed!

 

[Geordie Spark]

Years ago i worked for what is now called a DNO . Co-op was having air con installed and existing 1 phase meter position moved to new location. Electrician mentioned that air con being installed, so I said what about additional loading, 3 phase may be reqd.
Nope 1 phase will be OK........No it wasn't. 6 months later road /paths dug up......3 phase installed!

Aye well ..... some folk won't be told - they have to be shown.

 

[RyanCheetham]

Just do everything you can to cover yourself. Emails, signed contracts and photos of your work to make it impossible to prove your neglegence.

 

[driverman]

Aye well ..... some folk won't be told - they have to be shown.

Expensive mistake though! lol

 

[Geordie Spark]

Expensive mistake though! lol

They are the best sort ...... you tend to remember them and not make them again !!!

 

[Guitarist]

I don't agree with the general consensus here. If you connect it all up, knowing that it is not suitable, and something goes wrong, you will be the first on the block. Yes, you can argue that "they told me to do it", but you are the professional, and as such will still be responsible for your actions.

 

[snowhead]

The load won't be quite as bad as it seems.

Not all A/C will be on at the same time,, not everyone likes a cold room.
There won't be many times when the Hotel is fully occupied.
Even when some of it is on, the compressors won't all be running at the same time, they'll be cycling on and off, in fact if they're Inverter they won't even be at full load the majority of the time.

Could still push the load over the top tho'.

 

[davethsparky]

The load won't be quite as bad as it seems.

Not all A/C will be on at the same time,, not everyone likes a cold room.
There won't be many times when the Hotel is fully occupied.
Even when some of it is on, the compressors won't all be running at the same time, they'll be cycling on and off, in fact if they're Inverter they won't even be at full load the majority of the time.

Could still push the load over the top tho'.

seems a little irrelevant when the OP has said the installation is approx 10 amps below its maximum when the hotel is quiet, no amount of diversity in the new load is going to help this one.

 

[davethsparky]

If I were in the OP's shoes I would be doing my best to insist on a load study being carried out when the hotel is reasonably busy.

This will then give some nice paperwork with coloured graphs and such like which the desk monkeys will have a chance of understanding. A graph showing the existing load going up to and beyond the big red line showing the limit of the supply should make it obvious to even the most stupid desk-driver.

 

[Guitarist]

If I were in the OP's shoes I would be doing my best to insist on a load study being carried out when the hotel is reasonably busy.

This will then give some nice paperwork with coloured graphs and such like which the desk monkeys will have a chance of understanding. A graph showing the existing load going up to and beyond the big red line showing the limit of the supply should make it obvious to even the most stupid desk-driver.

Agree with dave here. It's too big a project to just "suck it and see".