sub main started.

[telectrix]

new sub as existing 3phase board is full. this is the job that glenn's with me on. just got the first 3 single phase circuits in. waiting for location of 3 phase supply before getting cable in.

 

[Darkwood]

Don't forget to earth the SWA with a fly lead to the banjo.... unless its out of view here I don't see one?

 

[telectrix]

SWA has a 3rd core for cpc as well as the gland earthing to the steel cab. why a banjo in a steel enclosure?

 

[Darkwood]

SWA has a 3rd core for cpc as well as the gland earthing to the steel cab. why a banjo in a steel enclosure?

Because the steel you have drilled should not be relied on for an earthing solution(note in your set-up its a gland plate thus relies on self tappers as a fault path) the regs state a separate tail to be used, this is regardless of having a separate earth you still have to have an effective earthing of the SWA even if you have an additional core.

 

[plugsandsparks]

Banjo bolted through db top with earth lead to db earth point for me. Its just so much better and some sites wont have it any other way

 

[plugsandsparks]

Looking at the spacing you may be able to overlap the banjos and just drill two holes, simples

 

[telectrix]

Because the steel you have drilled should not be relied on for an earthing solution(note in your set-up its a gland plate thus relies on self tappers as a fault path) the regs state a separate tail to be used, this is regardless of having a separate earth you still have to have an effective earthing of the SWA even if you have an additional core.

OK, grant you that point. but only because the top plate is self-tapped into the main cabinet. but suppose that the next gland in has a banjo with fly lead. that would ensure a good earthing to the gland plate without banjo-ing all glands?

 

[Darkwood]

If you relied on SWA for earthing then you would require the separate tail, if you are just effectively earthing the SWA but have a separate core for earth then you can in certain set-up negate the need to tail but regardless here your set-up needs tailing due to been a gland plate and even if you went into the solid construct of the cabinet you have to remember to remove all the paint ensure full contact all around the gland and/or banjo if used and preserve after with an anti - rust coat.... TBH it quicker to tail and simpler as you ensure good continuity without question.

Sorry wasn't trying to trip you up Tel ... just a friendly nudge to always tail as good practice even when not required. An example of a scenario where no tail needed or banjo would be 2 swa's into a galv through box and the solid threaded cast 1 piece construct ensure good earthing between the 2 cables.

 

[telectrix]

i see what you mean. i usually fit banjos and a tais as standard, just thought this job would not require, as armour is not used as cpc. paint has been removed,no need for rust prevention as it's in a dry environment. but will just bung in banjos and tails when back there wednesday. thanks for the heads up. been doing too much domestic lately.

 

[Darkwood]

i see what you mean. i usually fit banjos and a tais as standard, just thought this job would not require, as armour is not used as cpc. paint has been removed,no need for rust prevention as it's in a dry environment. but will just bung in banjos and tails when back there wednesday. thanks for the heads up. been doing too much domestic lately.

Send a pick after I want proof lol

 

[High Tower]

This is why for the extra cost on these kind of installs, I bung in a length of 4" trunking, 2" bushed and earthed. Then I gland all my SWA's in, bolt through the banjo but no tail required.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Because the steel you have drilled should not be relied on for an earthing solution(note in your set-up its a gland plate thus relies on self tappers as a fault path) the regs state a separate tail to be used, this is regardless of having a separate earth you still have to have an effective earthing of the SWA even if you have an additional core.

OK ...i`m just going to come in at this point Dark..

Tel did mention about sticking a fly lead on them armoureds i glanded off into that panel....i said no...on the basis that its a steel enclosure....

so if theres any contravention here then i will stand and take fire for it....

 

[Guest77]

i see what you mean. i usually fit banjos and a tais as standard, just thought this job would not require, as armour is not used as cpc. paint has been removed,no need for rust prevention as it's in a dry environment. but will just bung in banjos and tails when back there wednesday. thanks for the heads up. been doing too much domestic lately.

Consider yourself Dismissed

 

[7029 dave]

i see what you mean. i usually fit banjos and a tais as standard, just thought this job would not require, as armour is not used as cpc. paint has been removed,no need for rust prevention as it's in a dry environment. but will just bung in banjos and tails when back there wednesday. thanks for the heads up. been doing too much domestic lately.

Stick an link bar in Tel sorted.

 

[edexlab]

Re the galv thru box I've been picked up on several occasions as I didn't banjo and connect with a fly lead, I've only ever seen it done on these 2 occasions, but have seen it on several older installations,
personally I think it is unnecessary I know the one guy had spent a lot of time underground and the other instance was where the company was from South Wales leading me to believe its a practice stemming from mining, is this the case??

 

[davesparks]

This is why for the extra cost on these kind of installs, I bung in a length of 4" trunking, 2" bushed and earthed. Then I gland all my SWA's in, bolt through the banjo but no tail required.

Why fit a banjo when glanding onto galvanised trunking?

Personally I use earth nuts these days as they make good reliable contact whether it's bare metal or painted. I only connect a flylead with insulated enclosures or if I have any reason to doubt the earthing of the metal I'm glanding in to.
Gland plates I will run a flylead to the gland plate and sometimes replace it with a brass plate if I have a lot to make off to it.

 

[atm84]

Do you earth the armouring at both ends? I was told that you should because if you didnt and the unearthed end was terminated into an enclosure with other earths there could be a risk that they could be at a different potential.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Do you earth the armouring at both ends? I was told that you should because if you didnt and the unearthed end was terminated into an enclosure with other earths there could be a risk that they could be at a different potential.

R2 on each would confirm any chances of differing potentials appearing...

 

[Darkwood]

OK ...i`m just going to come in at this point Dark..

Tel did mention about sticking a fly lead on them armoureds i glanded off into that panel....i said no...on the basis that its a steel enclosure....

so if theres any contravention here then i will stand and take fire for it....

It was only brought up because its a gland plate Glen and not the main solid steel enclosure so would require a tail earth regardless of the separate core, don't get me wrong there was no intent to sound like I was taking a pot shot at his work but that aside I admire your honesty

 

[GLENNSPARK]

It was only brought up because its a gland plate Glen and not the main solid steel enclosure so would require a tail earth regardless of the separate core, don't get me wrong there was no intent to sound like I was taking a pot shot at his work but that aside I admire your honesty

no i know that.

and yes...i should`v known better than to rely on a few self tappers for R2 on the armourings...

the reason i came in at that point was that i wanted to emphasize that it was me that made the decision to go without banjo & flying lead....

not Tel.

 

[shanky887614]

Why fit a banjo when glanding onto galvanised trunking?

Personally I use earth nuts these days as they make good reliable contact whether it's bare metal or painted. I only connect a flylead with insulated enclosures or if I have any reason to doubt the earthing of the metal I'm glanding in to.
Gland plates I will run a flylead to the gland plate and sometimes replace it with a brass plate if I have a lot to make off to it.

not always needed, I could show you pictures of a place that has that much steel bonded to the MET its a waste of copper to put on fly leads to MB.

we are talking about unistrut from window brackets on steel girders bolted to floor.

we get through a fair bit of unistrut. at least 50 x 3m lengths in this one room

 

[GLENNSPARK]

not always needed, I could show you pictures of a place that has that much steel bonded to the MET its a waste of copper to put on fly leads to MB.

we are talking about unistrut from window brackets on steel girders bolted to floor.

we get through a fair bit of unistrut. at least 50 x 3m lengths in this one room

Ooh...

think of the parrallel paths....

be a bit like `loop the loop`....

 

[davesparks]

not always needed, I could show you pictures of a place that has that much steel bonded to the MET its a waste of copper to put on fly leads to MB.

we are talking about unistrut from window brackets on steel girders bolted to floor.

we get through a fair bit of unistrut. at least 50 x 3m lengths in this one room

You're talking to someone who would be more than happy to carry on the old method of building a steel frame from steel angle welded together to carry the switchgear and busbar etc then bolting the incoming earth to the steel frame and everything else earths through the steelwork/trunking etc.

I've just started subbing for a company who had me installing 19core SWA to carry 6 circuits, I'll be having words about that waste of copper soon enough, 12core would have been fine!
I've seen the materials list for the next job too, 700mts of G/Y to pull in to steel trunking/conduit! I'll be buggered if im wasting my time doing that!

 

[shanky887614]

You're talking to someone who would be more than happy to carry on the old method of building a steel frame from steel angle welded together to carry the switchgear and busbar etc then bolting the incoming earth to the steel frame and everything else earths through the steelwork/trunking etc.

I've just started subbing for a company who had me installing 19core SWA to carry 6 circuits, I'll be having words about that waste of copper soon enough, 12core would have been fine!
I've seen the materials list for the next job too, 700mts of G/Y to pull in to steel trunking/conduit! I'll be buggered if im wasting my time doing that!

just because its a waste doesn't mean I dont have to do it.

we have to follow a spec as well.

and I was only talking about swa in the short jump from trunking to panel anyway.

quite often we end up bushing directly into the panel and not through the gland plates so its perfectly acceptable (I would prefer the gland plates though)

 

[Geordie Spark]

new sub as existing 3phase board is full. this is the job that glenn's with me on. just got the first 3 single phase circuits in. waiting for location of 3 phase supply before getting cable in.

View attachment 25627

I hope that piccie wasn't taken with your Canon 20D.

 

[davesparks]

just because its a waste doesn't mean I dont have to do it.

we have to follow a spec as well.

and I was only talking about swa in the short jump from trunking to panel anyway.

quite often we end up bushing directly into the panel and not through the gland plates so its perfectly acceptable (I would prefer the gland plates though)

I know sometimes we have to follow a spec no matter how daft it may be.
Like why you have to use SWA for a short jump from a panel to trunking? Why don't they just join the trunking to the panel, or use conduit?

But hey, if they are putting their name to the design they can have whatever they want I guess.

 

[telectrix]

I hope that piccie wasn't taken with your Canon 20D.

10D. yes it was. problem was the poor light level, and the fact that the autofocus could not settle because of the glass on the meter. after a few beers, the manual focussing was just as bad,

edit: bugger. wrong thread. was thinking of the pic of the meter. no. this pic was done with phone. with the phone in poor light, there's a delay between pressing the button and the phone actually taking the shot.

 

[GMES]

10D. yes it was. problem was the poor light level, and the fact that the autofocus could not settle because of the glass on the meter. after a few beers, the manual focussing was just as bad,

Nice camera Tel!!, I keep saying I'm going to splash out one day

 

[telectrix]

Nice camera Tel!!, I keep saying I'm going to splash out one day

only thing i don't like about the 10D is the small screen size. think the 30D has a bigger screen, there's a great camera shop in chester, 2nd hand SLRs at good prices.

 

[GMES]

only thing i don't like about the 10D is the small screen size. think the 30D has a bigger screen, there's a great camera shop in chester, 2nd hand SLRs at good prices.

Is it a Full frame Camera

 

[GMES]

Sorry Tel got to go lad's just turned up, I will check in later!!

 

[telectrix]

Is it a Full frame Camera

no, not as in full 35mm, it's smaller. some later canons are full frame but not sure which. ask geordie, he's got a 30D or a 40D.

 

[telectrix]

just thinking... should it be called a sub-main? reason it query this is because a sub-main by definition is fed from a OCPD in a main DB. in this case, the tails are going to be split before the main DB and fed direct from the meter, so really, i will have 2 main boards, a sub is fed with that SWA with the missing gland .LOL.

 

[Geordie Spark]

no, not as in full 35mm, it's smaller. some later canons are full frame but not sure which. ask geordie, he's got a 30D or a 40D.

I have a 30D and it isn't full frame.

The 30D was introduced in 2006 and at that time the only Canon full-frame DSLRs were the 5D Mark II and the 1Ds Mark III.

 

[Geordie Spark]

only thing i don't like about the 10D is the small screen size. think the 30D has a bigger screen, there's a great camera shop in chester, 2nd hand SLRs at good prices.

I had the 350D and it had a small screen at 1.8". The 30D screen is bigger at 2.5"

 

[telectrix]

the 10D is a 1.8" as well. OK if you have good eyes.

 

[GMES]

I was looking at the 5d mark 111, but a bit pricey nearly 3k, that's with a lens or 2,300.00 for body only.

 

[Andy78]

Our lass has a couple of 36D. Lovely to handle and a doddle to use. Easy laid out functions with only 2 buttons to control and brilliant to zoom in on.

 

[telectrix]

that's a proper pro SLR. a bit OTT IMO.

 

[Darkwood]

Our lass has a couple of 36D. Lovely to handle and a doddle to use. Easy laid out functions with only 2 buttons to control and brilliant to zoom in on.

Our lass has the very same although the SD card port is a bit worn and has a nasty crack at the rear.... :smilewinkgrin:

 

[telectrix]

Our lass has the very same although the SD card port is a bit worn and has a nasty crack at the rear.... :smilewinkgrin:

hope that's the camera that you are referring to.

 

[Darkwood]

hope that's the camera that you are referring to.

For once .....No comment!

 

[telectrix]

just for you, darkwood. earthing nut and fly lead fitted. tails in, waiting for tomorrow to power down and split incomers. existing board is well out of balance. phase currents varying from 16A upwards. 37A in the N. might try and get then to pay a couple of hours to reconfigure some circuits to balance the board.

 

[GMES]

Now all you need to buy Tel is a Label printer :nono:

 

[telectrix]

got one. those notes are only temporary.

 

[GMES]

Ok let you off then!!