Testing others peoples' work.

[eckersecker]

I have only been registered with a scheme for a few months as I always worked for someone else.

I have always turned down the following requests but judging by the number of times I've been asked and the look of disbelief on peoples faces I guess it must happen all the time. The question being, " I am not registered will you come and test and sign off my work. ?" This ranges from kitchen fitters to factory electricians to ex colleagues doing work after hours. I can't think they would ask if someone wan't doing it. If a competent but unregistered person is doing the work it seems a shame to turn down this lucrative work. What do you think?

 

[Sintra]

Touchy subject.

IMO the only way that you could sign off another parties work is if you were present at the various stages of installation and can truely and accuratley verify the work has been done in accordance with the brb.

Remember the buck will stop at you once you have signed the certs.

 

[Guest123]

Under the regualtion of part p of the building regs (if you are referring to domestic situations) a 3rd party is not permitted to test and register another parties works, unless building control themselves send someone.

It's someting like paragraph 1.28 of part p.

 

[telectrix]

as Sintra says. if you have not seen the work in progrees, you cannot tell if say, the cabling ( now concealed) has been installed correctly and at the end of the day, if it goes ---- up, your name is on the cert. only by ensuring that the work is safe and compliant should you put your name to it.

 

[eckersecker]

I can see what you are saying. What about when i put on a new consumer unit on an old house and test the whole installation , I then do the cert, and register it. I havent even talked to the person who did the wiring , say 20 yrs ago.

 

[Guest123]

I can see what you are saying. What about when i put on a new consumer unit on an old house and test the whole installation , I then do the cert, and register it. I havent even talked to the person who did the wiring , say 20 yrs ago.

Thats a bit different, all you are 'certifying' there is the work you have carried out, the CU upgrade, as this is what you will have entered in the extent covered box.

 

[kmcgold]

when you part p the work you are insuring the work
and if the is a problem later on they can make you
put the work right or claim of your insurance.


When you do a fuse board change you are only part p your work.
the are limitations to the testing and inspection of the rest of
the installation .

 

[Adam W]

This is a very common request - often a non-registered person will want to do the work themselves to save a bit of cash, then just wants the paperwork at the end; every so often a DIYer will ask for advice on doing notifyable work, someone tells them to ask their electrician, then they tell us their electrician is on holiday and will come back just to sign it off. We had a quick show of hands and everyone said there's no way they would do it, partly because as mentioned you're signing for responsibility of the installation.

 

[eckersecker]

ok point taken, thanks all.

 

[tonys]

down

If a competent but unregistered person is doing the work it seems a shame to turn down this lucrative work. What do you think?

People who don't turn the above, don't talk about their business on a public forum. Ive seen a few different people do it over the years, but I never did.

 

[albi]

In the past I have carried out a PIR with LBC permmision on some domestic jobs told my nic inspector and saide that was fine

 

[Phil]

yeh doing a pir is fine as you are only reporting on the condition of the installation. but when signing an EIC you are taking responsibility for the works done and saying you did it. the only exception is within a firm wheras you have the multi sig sheets and a qs

 

[tony mc]

A PIR is the right way to go about testing in this case but I would't issue a EIC.

I done one recently for a lady who fell out with the builder and it was finished off by another who could not sign it off she contacted the LABC who said they wanted a PIR re the install before they would pass it off.

 

[sbrown2]

So am I correct in summising that the answer to the post is (a) you cannot sign off somebody elses installation using a EIC or Minor works cert (b) you can oversee the whole/part of the property with a periodic. (c) would I be correct in saying, in any test, using any logic, we should be testing to ensure the safety of the property and the user and take into account the type of installation?

 

[Phil]

if you look at the part of the eic you are signing it states "FOR DESIGN, CONSTRUCTION, INSPECTION & TESTING
I being the person responsible for the Design, Construction, Inspection & Testing of the electrical installation (as indicated by my signature below), particulars of which are described above, having exercised reasonable skill and care when carrying out the Design, Construction, Inspection & Testing, hereby CERTIFY that the said work for which I have been responsible is to the best of my knowledge and belief in accordance with BS 7671:2008"

 

[Phil]

so basicly when you are signing it off you are saying it "WAS" you that did it. now thats something that i would not be comfy with but thats just me and maybe a ott but i would only pop my name on something i would be happy to be held accountable for. now if you don`t mind taking the rap for anything that may go wrong then thats fine mate. don`t take this as a lecture i am just telling you what i would not do, i know many who do.

 

[sbrown2]

Yes and interesting! I think whats more important is the type of work these people are undertaking that needs signing off. If additions to original circuits or final circuit additions could the work be deemed minor works. You are just testing and verifying that circuit and passing comment on the remainder of the installation. I tend to listen to these threads and get confused as people want to install a consumer unit and issues a EIC but they guarantee the consumer unit only but if we add an additional circuit to an installation the reverse cannot ne said.
I think there are many rules of thought that can be applied to this theory a main one being the prescence or ommission of RCDs which aids the integrity of the circuits.
My only interest in this is coming from the mining industry how do I test and take responsibility for every circuit I expose from coal face to pit top. The answer is you don,t you sign for the part you have tested and inspected and rely on such as earth loop integrity and circuit protection reliability.

Anyway, thats my thoughts on the matter!!!!!! and I do have the big red book.

 

[Johno]

The bottom line is DON'T sign off someone elses work! (unless it's good money) lol

 

[sbrown2]

and you've tested and inspected it and made an assessment of the installation.

 

[SimpleSimon]

and you've tested and inspected it and made an assessment of the installation.

Which is usually hard/impossible by the time it comes to it because all flooring,plastering,fixings are back in place and cable runs,lengths,mechanical protection,external influences can't be assessed and all these and more are tick boxes on a schedule of inspections.
Touchy subject which is commonly misconstrued with the general public that any old sod can do it.

 

[sbrown2]

Thats a bit different, all you are 'certifying' there is the work you have carried out, the CU upgrade, as this is what you will have entered in the extent covered box.

Which is usually the sort of work somebody else could have done, and is quite visable, and mostly easy to assess, whether good or bad. But importantly the upgrade if to current standards and not tripping every 2 secs should massively increase the protection of the installation. Also what are the chances of doing a upgrade and not finding some faults. Should we take responsibility for these circuits.
Seems to me like the answer should be other people can perform the works but a PIR should be required by a competent person, which in turn increases the costs. Or that Part P should be enforced. I am on the cusp of joining one of these schemes, namely NAPIT, so I am interested in these types of threads.

Regards

Sbrown2

 

[SimpleSimon]

People work differently. If asked for a CU change, it's best to cone round and assess the scenario. Check the bonding and earthing first. Visual checks on the circuits make sure no loose wires or sockets hanging off.
Your right there could always be something on a circuit that won't show until you start testing.
Personally when testing I correct any quick faults that I find to make all circuits pass, any faults that need further investigating I keep de-energised and notify the customer it's not safe to connect up. It's best to give a pre-warning before you start that this could happen, people think your going to be there for an hour and you're done, they don't realise the extent of it all.

 

[mattmoo1974]

A mate i have nt seen for yrs asked me to sign his work off.
When quizzed who did it he said he had "Its ok i looked on the internet its all done properly"
Amazing how many new friends you have again when your registered