NICEIC Certification Scheme thinking of jacking in the niceic

[sparkey58]

my notifable work is getting less and less, even more so with latest changes, so i am thinking i would be better off just jacking the nic and getting another spark to sign off work that needs part P its not just the money, it would save the hassle of yearly assesments, etc i am going to start asking locally in Bristol if anyone is prepared to do this, it is not clear to me though if this is o.k, if it is, and its not too expensive, perhaps 50 quid if i fill out the forms and they just sign them off [after they have seen a few of my jobs and know i.m not a cowboy and know what i'm doing after 35 years in the trade] seems the the way to go.

 

[Engineer54]

As far as i'm concerned you should never have needed to be in a scheme in the first place!! lol!!
The other alternative (at the moment) is to ditch the NICEIC and go with the much cheaper provider ''STORMA''...

 

[Richard Burns]

You are suggesting an illegal course of action getting another person to sign off your work outside of a company and without the availability of third party sign off schemes.
If the third party schemes come into existence then the third party needs to complete an EICR for your work and I think they would expect more than £50.
I do understand and sympathise with your predicament, as E54 says getting a cheaper scheme would cost less overall.
Your method (even if you found someone to do it for £50) would cost more per year, if you did more than 10 notifiable jobs, than a scheme.

 

[Andy78]

It's ok if the other spark's scheme allows him to sign off third party work. As far as I know though, although this has been passed by the government in principle, none of the schemes have implemented it yet.

If you are not that fussed about it being ok or not though, why bother to notify work at all ? Just ditch your scheme and plod on regardless. Or pass on the notifiable jobs to another spark for a percentage of the bill, to go through his books instead.

 

[oldtimer]

The NICEIC. Realise they are losing credibility hence why they are merging and changing their name to cert sure only problem is that trick gets tried all the time you only have to see how the coperate world act when they get bad press then 6 months later a name change.
I live in Scotland where scheme membership is seen for big companies and not domestic but the big national sheds,etc apply English law to their kitchen and bathroom contractors where one company did an audit and found problems.
Me thinks Part P!sh will be allowed to fade away although not before the schemes put up a fight.

Remember in Scotland you can submit certification by Enquiry is attach front and back copies of your SJIB card sowing your image and qualifications along with a copy of your MFT calibration cert now in my view this has a full audit trail of unlike a scheme membership where it is an open secret that guys are borrowing someone's membership

 

[S.H.Electrical]

Hi there, just set up my own company and have my assessment date booked! Any tips for my first NICEIC visit? My 2 jobs are:
• Ccu change
• light fitting change

 

[richy3333]

The NICEIC. Realise they are losing credibility hence why they are merging and changing their name to cert sure only problem is that trick gets tried all the time you only have to see how the coperate world act when they get bad press then 6 months later a name change.
I live in Scotland where scheme membership is seen for big companies and not domestic but the big national sheds,etc apply English law to their kitchen and bathroom contractors where one company did an audit and found problems.
Me thinks Part P!sh will be allowed to fade away although not before the schemes put up a fight.

Remember in Scotland you can submit certification by Enquiry is attach front and back copies of your SJIB card sowing your image and qualifications along with a copy of your MFT calibration cert now in my view this has a full audit trail of unlike a scheme membership where it is an open secret that guys are borrowing someone's membership

I'm further north and NICEIC is not seen as being for bigger companies. We have a plethora of 'dangerous Daves, Electrical Trainee's, ex ship and lift engineers all who think they know what they are doing. The industry sucks, the NICEIC/SELECT aint perfect but at east it gives customers some comfort. BTW the NIC seem to have forgotten about my annual assessment this year, whats that all about?

 

[GLENNSPARK]

I'm further north and NICEIC is not seen as being for bigger companies. We have a plethora of 'dangerous Daves, Electrical Trainee's, ex ship and lift engineers all who think they know what they are doing. The industry sucks, the NICEIC/SELECT aint perfect but at east it gives customers some comfort. BTW the NIC seem to have forgotten about my annual assessment this year, whats that all about?

maybe....but as with all the schemes...if customers knew that all was required of some `wannabe` was the 17th edition and some cash to go out and start installing here, there n everyware......

 

[stuartcourt]

maybe....but as with all the schemes...if customers knew that all was required of some `wannabe` was the 17th edition and some cash to go out and start installing here, there n everyware......

totally agree I dont know what you would have to do to fail getting in

 

[guinnessgixer]

i think that every year its a total rip off! the annual visit is a joke with my provider, i find i can tell if i'm gonna get the job before i leave the property, as I've always been recommended and people love that! if its a biggy just add on the price of doing it through building control that's how other trades do it.............I've just had all new double glazed pvc fit at home, i asked the fitter if it came with a fencer certificate, his answer was, no fackin way mate im not paying them ----ers i was fitting windows before they were even thought of, but i'll regisiter it with building control and they will check em for you and issue a certificate!

 

[Dcf]

When I joined my scheme I got told I needed to do some testing regs etc training
on the testing course there was boys there tripping power out and not having a clue of one end of a meter from another.it was embarrassing of the level of ability.everyone passed.
kinda says it all really

 

[Redvanman]

My Nic annual inspections are fairly pointless I could right down the answers of the question there ask before they turn up as there are always the same
normally find something to note yet its never the same thing and i havnt altered my methods
they are concern more with getting away (20 mins between jobs)
one did tell me that once they realise your a proper sparks there not that bothered
always try to take them to big houses as they want to have a look around which keeps them happy

 

[Rob Smith 643]

I'm with Napit and don't have formal annual inspections as I see the inspector throughout the year during installations. Convenient for both of us I dare say.

 

[MDJ]

it would save the hassle of yearly assesments,

Can't cope with it eh? lol

 

[Redvanman]

I'm with Napit and don't have formal annual inspections as I see the inspector throughout the year during installations. Convenient for both of us I dare say.

So does that mean your inspector come out to your installs that are in progress.
Do you call him in.
how does he check your testing

 

[Rob Smith 643]

So does that mean your inspector come out to your installs that are in progress.

Yes.

Do you call him in.

No, it's coincidental. I do installs in support of subcontracted bathroom/kitchen fitters for B & Q. Napit approve all elements of the job and he calls in unannounced to view/check the progress of the whole job at its near completion. Not every job I hasten to add. So he sees the install and asks the odd question about ref method, circuit protection etc. It's not intensive.

how does he check your testing

He has a look at the pre-install test results and fires a quick quiz at you based on those. Also checks/signs your tester calibration monthly check sheet. He knows which publications I have but is more interested to see that I carry ID and a copy of B & Q's operations manual (which is regurgitated BGB/OSG with a few extra minimum stipulations thrown in)

its a whole lot better than a home visit and a trawl around your installs. IMHO for what it's worth.

 

[MDJ]

He has a look at the pre-install test results and fires a quick quiz at you based on those. Also checks/signs your tester calibration monthly check sheet. He knows which publications I have but is more interested to see that I carry ID and a copy of B & Q's operations manual (which is regurgitated BGB/OSG with a few extra minimum stipulations thrown in)

its a whole lot better than a home visit and a trawl around your installs. IMHO for what it's worth.

This is why they are losing credibility within the Industry

 

[oldtimer]

So you get to pick the job and not them ? sounds like a tick sheet exercise to keep an audit trail happy MDJ your right where is the credibility

 

[Rob Smith 643]

I'm not sure that any of them are that highly rated and that could be for a number of reasons and probably all of their own doing. Like many time served and experienced electricians on here, I didn't feel that I needed regulating to any microscopic degree.. The feeling I got is that once they realise you're safe (and they probably know that from there initial meeting with you) that they don't feel the need to prod and poke.

When he's visiting me on live jobs it feels a lot more intrusive than the visit/quiz/install view that was conducted at the initial joining stage. But I have little to fear as I am conscientious and don't let the trade down at a personal/professional level.

Others may but I don't feel that my regular Inspector is letting anyone down where I have an involvement.

Lets hope he's putting those that need the scrutiny under the microscope. But we may suspect but not know otherwise.

The regulatory bodies should be spending more time seeking out the dangerous cowboys and not ticking boxes on the already worthy amongst us.

 

[Rob Smith 643]

So you get to pick the job and not them ? sounds like a tick sheet exercise to keep an audit trail happy MDJ your right where is the credibility

No, I don't get to pick the job, he just lands.

 

[MDJ]

sounds inconvenient just turning up and amateurish, never heard anything like it TBH, I don't doubt your a good spark Rob and are not trying to give you a hard time just the scheme.

 

[Rob Smith 643]

This is why they are losing credibility within the Industry

all B & Q work is notified to Napit so they will see certs for every job I do for them. How does it work with your provider? Curious.

 

[MDJ]

This is why they are losing credibility within the Industry

all B & Q work is notified to Napit so they will see certs for every job I do for them. How does it work with your provider? Curious.

He comes once a year and asks to see a list of all the jobs I have carried out in the 12 months since he was last here, he then asks to see my domestic certs and asks for proof they were put through building control, he then picks anything from 2-4 jobs at random and asks to go there, whilst there he makes me re-test certain parts of the circuits and checks the results as well as looking at the jobs to ensure they are up to scratch and I also get the usual looking at insurance H&S manual etc etc, the visit last a half day and usually is pretty useful actually as I get to listen to the bull they are thinking of employing to us over the next 12 month period, new rules and bull they want us to adhere to, if they see anything they are not happy with you have to put it right and write to them within 30 days to confirm any minor defects have been carried out, they sometimes go back to check you have done so, luckily I don't get too much of that and usually the visit is successful, however as an approved contractor it is a little more intense from a DI scheme.

 

[Rob Smith 643]

He comes once a year and asks to see a list of all the jobs I have carried out in the 12 months since he was last here, he then asks to see my domestic certs and asks for proof they were put through building control, he then picks anything from 2-4 jobs at random and asks to go there, whilst there he makes me re-test certain parts of the circuits and checks the results as well as looking at the jobs to ensure they are up to scratch and I also get the usual looking at insurance H&S manual etc etc, the visit last a half day and usually is pretty useful actually as I get to listen to the bull they are thinking of employing to us over the next 12 month period, new rules and bull they want us to adhere to, if they see anything they are not happy with you have to put it right and write to them within 30 days to confirm any minor defects have been carried out, they sometimes go back to check you have done so, luckily I don't get too much of that and usually the visit is successful, however as an approved contractor it is a little more intense from a DI scheme.

That sounds quite thorough and more akin to my initial visit process. I've probably undersold the process in my first rambling but don't think the process is as intense as this one. I'm quite happy with the ad hoc visits I get as its no inconvenience to me and less inconvenient to householders. I do share your concerns about the credibility of the schemes and the process should be equally applied to all. it's my opinion that the whole thing was screwed from the get-go. More than one cps equals disaster for its memberships. Though not an expert in regulatory bodies other industries have only one, nationally appointed body. Could we not have had an OfElec if HMG considered the industry to in such a disarray? One singer, one song?

Humourous but not. I've spoken with some electricians who didn't even know what their own cps abbreviation stood for, "Er, is it the national association of, er...er...er...", if you get my drift.

 

[Redvanman]

He comes once a year and asks to see a list of all the jobs I have carried out in the 12 months since he was last here, he then asks to see my domestic certs and asks for proof they were put through building control, he then picks anything from 2-4 jobs at random and asks to go there, whilst there he makes me re-test certain parts of the circuits and checks the results as well as looking at the jobs to ensure they are up to scratch and I also get the usual looking at insurance H&S manual etc etc, the visit last a half day and usually is pretty useful actually as I get to listen to the bull they are thinking of employing to us over the next 12 month period, new rules and bull they want us to adhere to, if they see anything they are not happy with you have to put it right and write to them within 30 days to confirm any minor defects have been carried out, they sometimes go back to check you have done so, luckily I don't get too much of that and usually the visit is successful, however as an approved contractor it is a little more intense from a DI scheme.

I presume you are Nic approved, I'm only domestic now and it's pretty much the same on the inspection except that you tell them which two jobs you are going to show them.
i did once ask how they know that all my jobs are to standard rather than just the two jobs I show them. He seem to think no one would do that!!
as for Napit I am shocked that they operate in that way, I really can't imagine an inspector just turning up in the middle of a job, what happens if you haven't got the time to give him and I'm sure the builder/client would be annoyed if you stop working so that some one can poke around the job.
do you have to register every single job before you start it, more paper work.
I always thought all the bodies preformed the same way.
My thoughts on Part P is either the whole house is covered or just get rid of it.

 

[Rob Smith 643]

Well I reckon I see an inspector more than most by the sounds of it! Not sure that's a great thing. Yes it can sometimes be inconvenient but he's there to see others primarily, besides me, and if I'm up to my arms in loft insulation he'll see me on another job. He's there to see bathroom/kitchen installers as an oversight function on behalf of B & Q. He probably sees more jobs of mine than he does non B & Q associated sparks. I'm happy that he takes the time to talk, check, inspect, interrogate and advise to the degree he's happy with. He seems happy enough with my installs and testing practices (and fault finding, problem solving) and Im sure he's enough about him to say if he sees something dangerous. Only a fool would beg him to ask for more scrutiny but I also realise that's not what you're concerned about. It's the consistency of approach. He may have to adopt a different one for folks he never sees year on year. I've a mate who gets the same guy on his annual review. I'll check with him to see what the score is out of curiosity...

 

[oldtimer]

Redvanman I would not be shocked about them turning up on a job for a spot check but I am shocked that you get to pick 2 jobs. Don't get me wrong not having a go at you but the Schemie system was meant to police the industry and I understand policing guys who have done 6 months in domestics thing is as MDJ said its all about credibility and up here people are not interested in a badge because they have seen and heard about kitchen or bathroom disasters and now they are going back to recommendations from friends and family. I was called for a second opinion on a kitchen install and declined saying I did not want to get involved with this type of dispute that revolved around a problem with a SFCU that led on to a demand for a copy of qualifications ,calibration and test certs only to find they were all bogus and done under the badge of a Scheme so Joe Public is already on to them and see them as some sort of body that protects their members interests plus in this current environment we do not need an extra layer of supervision that is bloated and in my view cannot not even police or sort out there rouge members.

The House of Commons review on Part P was right when they highlighted that the Schemes had a blatant conflict of interests and said it was unhealthy for the industry. The problem is they have a good revenue stream and the don't or won't give it up without a fight leaving us and the industry we work in as second thoughts. One thing for sure is badging anyone who will pay is no way to get respect

 

[Rob Smith 643]

Oldtimer, that's quite an alarming experience. How on earth do we reassure prospective first time clients If the cps hasn't checked qualifications etc prior to approval. Doomed.

 

[Redvanman]

Oldtimer I quite agree
I think you pick your own jobs is because its domestic and the owner won't be in if you just turned up but it is opened to abuse
Hey let's make all sparks registered and have electricsafe like the plumbers gassafe
that would cut out the yehaas slightly

 

[oldtimer]

Rob I am not a scheme member but in Scotland when your do a job you can submit documentation by "Enquiry" in other words you have to submits certs along with tester calibration certs and a front and back copy of your SJIB card. Now speaking to someone in planning by Enquiry has a full audit trail ie was the person competent ? was the tester within calibration and most importantly to the customer was this the guy who did the job as your picture is on your SJIB card.

Now my understanding is the Scheme member submits certs with his membership number on it fine but when there is a problem and people poke a bit deeper O by the way can you also submit copies of the person doing the job SJIB card and tester calibration certificate thats when it goes pear shape. Thing is if this was exposed the Scheme will not put its hands up to say well err yep this can and did happen.

I spoke to a landlord who was pretty switched on so he requested copies of SJIB cards and tester calibration certs and ended up getting the run around as he said to me I have a duty of care to my tenant(s) so getting this extra documentation I see as no big deal
and I said well yep see your point of view. Then he said to me I want a copy of your SJIB card,tester calibration cert and ISI&TEE cert as well just when I finished doing the last item on a PAT test or I aint paying he said.