what is the best thing to do here

[NadHuh]

Someone's already wired this but I am not sure what he was going to do if you have a look at this http://sli.so/9319603NQ
It looks like it is a ring so what is the best thing I can do I was thinking of adding another socket and crimping one cable with one leg behind the
socket and the others cable with the others leg connected to a socket is this the best solution?

 

[ste77]

Looks like he was adding another socket into the ring. Cant argue with what you were planning.

 

[Darkwood]

I will open a whole can of arguments here but solid drawn cables shouldn't be crimped, the crimps are not designed for solid and although it may seem tight the ratchet can crush the solid cable, miscrimp and the joint is usually highly suseptable to failure especially if moved about in it lifetime as it easily loosens.
In line cable splices are designed and can be used on both stranded and solid cables, the amount of failed crimps on solid ive come across is unbelievable.
There are others on this forum that say they never had problems but if you talk to the manufacturers about it they generally recommend you dont use on solid drawn cables, stranded cables can adjust to the shaping of the crimping action giving a good tight crimp, when solid is used the butt crimp can deform and/or the cable can be crushed and weakened and on top of this as already noted the joint may seem tight but is easy to wiggle loose.

 

[trev]

The first thing I'd be doing is proving whether it's a ring or not then taking it from there.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

I will open a whole can of arguments here but solid drawn cables shouldn't be crimped, the crimps are not designed for solid and although it may seem tight the ratchet can crush the solid cable, miscrimp and the joint is usually highly suseptable to failure especially if moved about in it lifetime as it easily loosens.
In line cable splices are designed and can be used on both stranded and solid cables, the amount of failed crimps on solid ive come across is unbelievable.
There are others on this forum that say they never had problems but if you talk to the manufacturers about it they generally recommend you dont use on solid drawn cables, stranded cables can adjust to the shaping of the crimping action giving a good tight crimp, when solid is used the butt crimp can deform and/or the cable can be crushed and weakened and on top of this as already noted the joint may seem tight but is easy to wiggle loose.

well...i`ll be honest here and say i`v had to crimp solid cable in the past....and yep...i identify with what your sayin dark....as i`v had em pull out from time to time....so i allways tug em first...just to be sure.....
but a bit of due care n attention whilst crimping usually gets em...

 

[DNS1]

I always thought that crimping solid core was more reliable than crimping multi...

Decent crimping tool and you'll deform the core so the crimp won't come off...

Personally I crimp both and do a tug test. Had failures occasionally with both solid and multi, but usually fine.

 

[Darkwood]

I will honestly confess i have done before myself before i learnt about the pitfalls, and agree the crimp can seem deceptively good but rather than tugging it try wiggle it left and right and see how quickly it fails, stranded dosn't have this issue because the strands take up all the movement away from the crimp and also they give a reliable crimp to start with.

In cases where the cable never moves your can usually get away with it this is why it can seem 'deceptively' an OK method but you shouldn't apply that reasoning as an argument to use this method especially when alternatives exist.
One accepted method is uninsulated crimp then soldered with heat shrink to finish but space restrictions do limit this method and its time consuming too.

Personally i never entertain the method of crimping solids in thi fashion anymore and will go the extra step in a job to find an alternative solution.
A peak into industries that use plenty of crimping in cables will re-inforce this as they all ban crimps of this nature been used on solid, i.e. Railtrack, NASA, Aviation etc etc and understandably as the consequences are alot higher than a domestic fire.

 

[leo79]

Can't you just prove it is a ring, fit a socket where the old cables are and just use one of the new legs as a spur?

 

[GLENNSPARK]

I will honestly confess i have done before myself before i learnt about the pitfalls, and agree the crimp can seem deceptively good but rather than tugging it try wiggle it left and right and see how quickly it fails, stranded dosn't have this issue because the strands take up all the movement away from the crimp and also they give a reliable crimp to start with.

In cases where the cable never moves your can usually get away with it this is why it can seem 'deceptively' an OK method but you shouldn't apply that reasoning as an argument to use this method especially when alternatives exist.
One accepted method is uninsulated crimp then soldered with heat shrink to finish but space restrictions do limit this method and its time consuming too.

Personally i never entertain the method of crimping solids in thi fashion anymore and will go the extra step in a job to find an alternative solution.
A peak into industries that use plenty of crimping in cables will re-inforce this as they all ban crimps of this nature been used on solid, i.e. Railtrack, NASA, Aviation etc etc and understandably as the consequences are alot higher than a domestic fire.

hmm....consequences of the loss of a single life due to my actions ....would drive me to voulenterally hang up my test leads for good dark....

 

[telectrix]

i'm with darkwood on this. had no end of failures when crimping solid. crimped it, tugged it, fell apart, cut , new crimp, try again. get a better joint with yellow crimps on 2.5mm with the cores overlapping, not butted. even the dreaded choc blocks are more reliable. i blame the metricate everything brigade. was no problems with 7/029. and you could bend it when cold.

 

[Darkwood]

Inline splice connectors are perfect for the job and ok with solid and you dont have to get a crimp tool in a confined space, downfall is slightly bulkier than a butt crimp but peace of mind is a good thing me thinks,,,,,,,,, and agree @GLENNSPARK one life too much ...well unless it was a bodgit and scarper who copped it from his own shoddy work then i can rest easy with that thought.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Some crimps the manufacturer's state that they are suitable for solid conductors, other's don't state anything.
Obviously if the manufacturer's state that they are suitable for solid conductors, you're good to go.

 

[Darkwood]

Ive yet to find one spinlondon that allows you to use them with the existing ratchet crimper you have in your tool kit, and to be honest ive rung around a few in the past and ive yet to find one designed for solid that has its own crimping tool!
Like i said before with the rise in popularity of push-fit MF connectors this debate will be soon a distant memory with the likes of the tap and turn drilling tool.

 

[telectrix]

still don't trust 'em. they said the titanic was unsinkable and that was to BS.

 

[Geordie Spark]

I always thought that crimping solid core was more reliable than crimping multi...

Decent crimping tool and you'll deform the core so the crimp won't come off...

Personally I crimp both and do a tug test. Had failures occasionally with both solid and multi, but usually fine.

Soldered joint ... can't beat a PROPER soldered joint.

 

[Darkwood]

still don't trust 'em. they said the titanic was unsinkable and that was to BS.

Why what happened to Titanic??? Did a failed butt crimp send it careering into an iceberg???:nonod:

 

[Darkwood]

Soldered joint ... can't beat a PROPER soldered joint.

Although it may seem hard to believe when done correctly crimp joints are proven better then soldered joints, thats why NASA crimps and dosn't solder

 

[Geordie Spark]

still don't trust 'em. they said the titanic was unsinkable and that was to BS.

Aye .... but it wasn't built on the Tyne was it??

 

[PEG]

Whose coming with me to smash a few looms?:dizzy2:

 

[Geordie Spark]

Whose coming with me to smash a few looms?:dizzy2:

Wiring looms ?????????

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Wiring looms ?????????

is this luddites corner?...lol...

 

[Guest55]

solid cores need to be crimped with a set that uses an indented point tool head.
thats it , no fuss , works every time.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Why what happened to Titanic??? Did a failed butt crimp send it careering into an iceberg???:nonod:

no....i think the better way to have gone with the titanic would have been to solder up the hull plating.....
i guess they didn`t have enough solder or flux...

 

[Deleted member 26818]

I have two types of crimper.
One type applies one crimp to the core and another to the insulation???
Thes seem to be quite common.
They other type (which I prefer) applies two crimps to the core and nothing to the insulation.

 

[NadHuh]

Can't you just prove it is a ring, fit a socket where the old cables are and just use one of the new legs as a spur?

Yea that sounds much easier but why would the other guy have wired it like this?

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Perhaps he intended to spur off of the new socket, or wanted to leave it as an option, or perhaps he intended extending the ring over towards the right in the picture.

 

[Engineer54]

I am solidly in the crimping camp, both for solid and stranded cables. I'm not keen on the bulky coloured PVC insulated butt crimps etc, but the heat-shrink insulated butt crimps etc, are fine!! Personally i prefer to use the uninsulated crimps and use 2 layers of heat-shrink, the top layer colour coded to the conductor insulation. Deforming the conductor(s) within the crimp will always give you a permanent joint. Most failures in crimping operations are man errors, and we all make them, especially when access is a little restricted....


Using good quality crimps and a good quality crimping tool and you shouldn't go far wrong!! We will have literary tens of thousands of crimped terminations connecting into protective devices etc, within every Final DB and several tens of thousands more, connecting to other electrical equipment and panels. And i will be sleeping soundly when all is finished, just as i am now with all the other completed projects i've been responsible for!!