What would you do!!

[monkee]

Having been to a call out to a faulty socket the customer said that thay had received a shock when thay tried to grab the metal part of the device which was class one.

I said, I can see you have had some work done and I take it the consumer unit was upgraded due to the extra circuits kitchen etc..

can I see the EIR please, she said she did not get one because the electricain became ill ok I will carry out some tests to the socket..

so I grab my socket tester plugged in and no earth great start so I removed the socket found three pairs of 2.5 in red and black i then proceed to split and test back from

the board I could not get an R1 R2 reading so I tried method two R1 and Rn ok but no R2 I scratched my head but that was it no earth back to the board.

The customer had added a flex to convert the single socket in to a double and had pinched the live wire with 3.5 again I showed them this but they said why didnt the

fuse blow well if there was an earth path it would have blown but as it had not got one thats why and when u plugged in and then touched it you became the earth path

thay said that the prevous guy had trouble with readings in this area and kept moaning about something, then he offered to add in a single socket were there once was a

fuse spur which happened to be the next leg in the circuit again untested with no earth . This is my ironing socket she said I always use this one since he offered it.

so what would you do his name is all over the consmer unit and he is part P do you tell tales or what, he missed this circuit out when testing for the board change

what would you do... grass him up, phone him or just be professional and put it down to a bad day we all get them

Part P is it working I think that sparks are forever being rushed and pressurised your thoughts

grey skies grey faces...

 

[trev]

Part p is not working mate, do you know who the guy is? does he have a normally good rep? is there any point in grassing because no one is going to do anything anyway.

 

[stidge]

I would try to get customer to phone previous spark and ask him to come and rectify! Otherwise price up to rewire said circuit and offer to make good works, otherwise walk away mate !!

 

[oldtimer]

Part P not working as it aint policed and as for the guy is he a Electrical Trainee out of his depth or decent guy who is ill mmmm go find out do a bit of digging ie is he still active doing jobs ? is so report him is he a Electrical Trainee if so report him because if this is the case then don't give him a license to kill

 

[thomas-1981]

Don't see the point in 'grassing' as nothing will be done. Give a customer a good price for rectifying the works correctly. And now you have a new customer on your books who is going to recommend you to anyone looking for an electrician.

 

[oldtimer]

Don't see the point in 'grassing' as nothing will be done. Give a customer a good price for rectifying the works correctly. And now you have a new customer on your books who is going to recommend you to anyone looking for an electrician.

Listen this has nothing to do with "Grassing" our trade is saturated with guys doing a job tomorrow and are on here tonight to find out how to do it something has to give and in our game there is a fine line between dangerous and criminal plus does not help that the Schemies and the law operate a last man free's all approach remember its not about honor amongst thieves remember these clowns depend on people not to rock the boat as it does not make them better sparks hell no it just gives them an illusion that they can get away with it.

I will leave you with this thought you follow one of these clowns on a job and even if you get pulled and are asked why did you not say anything and you reply I don't grass fine the say we will hold you negligent as well

 

[Guest111]

they say part p was brought in to stop things like this,if it was a member of your family this happened to how would you feel? also if you read later that this clown has killed someone you'll always wonder if it would have happened if you had shopped him. it aint difficult do it!

 

[Marvo]

If someone is a scheme member and they leave hazardous work what are you legally required to do? Is there a law or a scheme rule you've agreed to in their contract that requires you report someone?

 

[thomas-1981]

I think you'll see the term 'grass' was in the origional post. And as the customer got no certification with the works and the contractor was probably paid in cash. What proof apart from the customer's word would the OP have in trying to report this guy. And who to? I don't agree in how this guy left the job but I live in the real world and these things go on.

 

[R G]

Had a similar situation myself and the customer demanded action . I contacted the Nic , he was also registered with them , they said customer has to demand the guy goes back and put it right im writing or pay for someone else to put it right . I told the customer , and I issued a Danger Notification ( cover your backside) and walked away , Dont let thes morons get away with this, The Nic would get involved if the situation is not rectified

 

[trev]

1 His scheme, if he's a member, are not going to do anything. After all they have inspected him and deemed him competent, they are not going to admit they were wrong as has been demonstrated,
2 LABC are not going to do anything regarding the lack of certs and notification because they have neither the manpower, money or inclination to do so.
3 Trading Standards aren't going to do anything because there is little evidence that the guy was ever there in the first place

 

[oldtimer]

If someone is a scheme member and they leave hazardous work what are you legally required to do? Is there a law or a scheme rule you've agreed to in their contract that requires you report someone?

This is when you find out your paying £700 a year for a Scheme membership and there is no one policing it but just you try and use a Schemies badge / logo without paying for it and they will jump on you from a great height. Years ago we had respect on jobs and other trades used to look to us to protect their safety ie well if the spark will not use the scaffold neither will we now we are just a joke trying to cover our backsides

 

[Marvo]

So if the scheme's aren't interested in bolstering standards is there any legal requirement to report? Maybe go open a docket at the police station for attempted manslaughter?

 

[trev]

The police won't be interested either mate, no crime has been committed in their eyes.

 

[monkee]

all good points chaps on this matter

its down to the customer I think thay can take it further with the complaints procedure I will nudge them to phone and run it by the organosisation

i have corrected the faulty wire by installing a new circuit so that that done and as you said another customer to the books

 

[AndyOz]

Listen this has nothing to do with "Grassing" our trade is saturated with guys doing a job tomorrow and are on here tonight to find out how to do it something has to give and in our game there is a fine line between dangerous and criminal plus does not help that the Schemies and the law operate a last man free's all approach remember its not about honor amongst thieves remember these clowns depend on people not to rock the boat as it does not make them better sparks hell no it just gives them an illusion that they can get away with it.

I will leave you with this thought you follow one of these clowns on a job and even if you get pulled and are asked why did you not say anything and you reply I don't grass fine the say we will hold you negligent as well

I could not have put it better. After descovering this you have a rsponsibility to report it. In your position I would quote for a full periodic, it sounds like the customers know things are not right. This will give you and them confidence that the house is safe and your name will noy be tarred with his or her work. Then if there is remedial works then quote again as usual.

If the system works then the indiidual will learn from this. If and more likely nothing happens this is not down to you as neither you or me introduced part P.

 

[thomas-1981]

Who do you report it to? And with what proof?

 

[Des 56]

Had a similar situation myself and the customer demanded action . I contacted the Nic , he was also registered with them , they said customer has to demand the guy goes back and put it right im writing or pay for someone else to put it right . I told the customer , and I issued a Danger Notification ( cover your backside) and walked away , Dont let thes morons get away with this, The Nic would get involved if the situation is not rectified[/QUOTE]

There is a lot of wishful thinking in our ranks,iDo you honestly believe what you just wrote lol

To the op
You were engaged to carry out works ,whether that be installation or test/fault finding
You use your skills and identify the problem.report,give a price and the customer decides what to do

Your responsibility to the customer to report on the installation standard can be done without recourse to becoming some type of Sherlock Holmes and persuing the culprit

You could tell the customer how procedures for complaint are structured,ie for her to contact Nicy
What action she takes is her responsibility

None of us are happy with shoddy work and the chancers that infest this trade,but we are not regulators of standards,it is for Government and the industry leaders to put in structures that are suitable for the customers and for the industry standards

They have failed miserably in our eyes to do so,but in their own eyes and that of the schemes they have done a swell job with regulation and safe standards thus far
We see it differently,but we are just the workhorses,they are the jockeys

Do your job,get paid,have a moan if it suits,then move on to the next sorry install knowing you keep standards and safe installations,even if others fall short

 

[AndyOz]

Who do you report it to? And with what proof?

I understand along with all that the system is far from perfect but that can not be a reason for not doing the right thing.

I would check the Competent Persons Register | Home database to see if they are on there.
If they are then go to the provider they registered with
If they are not go to local authority building control and Trading Standards and let them deal with it, they might not do anything, but that can not be your responsibility.

In this case there was a real possibility of someone being killed.

The proof is yours and the customers witness statements.

 

[trev]

Andy with the best will in the world mate, we are not the electrical police. You can either spend your time earning or you can spend it tilting at windmills. The subject has been done to death on here, the schemes are not interested, LABC can't be bothered, trading standards don't care.
Is it right? Hell no.
Can anything be done about it? Yes but not by us, the guys at the coal face.
Is that right? Hell no