where do I stand....

[The Ranger]

Just out of interest, which bit of BS7671 covers kitchens?

sorry i miss worded it kitchens are excluded from special locations!

there are many parts of 7671 that should be adhered to in a kitchen we could be here all day!

 

[ackbarthestar]

sorry i miss worded it kitchens are excluded from special locations!

there are many parts of 7671 that should be adhered to in a kitchen we could be here all day!

Even cross bonding where appropriate ! but generally covered by the use of RCDs......

 

[GLENNSPARK]

well yet again the forum never fails to impress with the variety of posts here.......one thing though....to me to just be able to sit a 50min. on line guess on how to get your arse about a regs book is wholly inadequate.......to just sit the 2382 then hand over 500 odd quid..and its off you go.....cant be right when colleges offer the 2330 taken over THREE YEARS...in order to gain the foundations required....then its the 2391 etc....so how can anybody be considered "competent"...if all they have to do is sit an on line "exam".....doesn`t make sense and it needs sorting does this one.....the benchmark needs to be higher........

 

[Rockingit]

My point (rather sarcastically made, I'll admit), was just that Part P DOES have specific requirements for a kitchen, whereas in the BGB it's completely overlooked. So you do actually need to know and understand the vagaries of Part P (which one could argue are only verified by then being questioned and inspected) and not just rely on 20 years of encyclopaedic knowledge of 'the regs' and working in a totally different branch of electrical work.

So therefore, I think it's a poor show just to claim that because you're a long in the tooth electrician that you can ignore Part P as irrelevant to you.

 

[trev]

To me it makes a mockery of our trade that someone who has sat an open book exam then parted with £500 could carry out this work legally yet a spark with many years experience cannot unless he pays an eye watering sum to LABC.
Was it in a Dickens book where we heard "The law is an ---"?

 

[Geordie Spark]

So those of us all paying near 500 quid a year to be part-p registered may just as well not pay for part-p anymore and do as above then?

Finally, comes the dawn !!!

 

[Rockingit]

I'm not saying it's right, just saying that that's how it is. My guess is that the next ammendment to the regs might incorporate the 'missing' bits of Part P and changed the certification paperwork to something which adds a layer between EIC and Minor Works aimed at domestic locations. Then we'll all be on an equal footing. Once the NICEIC have retired most of their workforce, ECA seen their profits plummet and poor old NAPIT just fade away, of course.

 

[clicon357]

This thread made me think of some discussions I had a while back. Back in 2008 I was coming to the end of a 35 week Part P course. Yes, I know a lot have strong feelings on this subject but I think the course was a good one. (I then went on to take the 3 year 2330 and also my 17th all of which I now have). Anyway, coming to the end of the Part P (in 2008) I enquired with my local council as to where they stood on non approved scheme members doing their own works. I'd read Part P and was amazed to find it was at the discretion of the particular council whether they would accept your qualifications etc. This is what the guy wrote back:

Mr ******​

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Regarding your enquiry relating to clause 1.22 of Approved Document P. I can inform you that it is this councils policy, which is in keeping with other authorities in ******, that should notifiable electical installation be proposed to be carried out by persons not registered under self certification competent person schem, either in isolation or as part of larger project, it will be necessary to submit a separate Building Regulation application for the electrical work, which , when required we will arrange to have inspected during the progress of the work. Also to support the application details of the installers qualifications will also need to be submitted. ​

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Upon completion of the work the necessary BS7671, installation, design and testing certificate will need to be signed and submitted. Upon receipt of the above details the council will then consider whether sufficient information has been provided to enable a completion certificate to be issued.​

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Regards​

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MR * ******
Principle Building Control Surveyor

I actually rang the guy on receipt of his response and had a chat with him. It turned out, quite by chance that I knew him as 20 years previous he had helped me with some extension plans before joining the LABC and climbing the ladder. What he didn't say in his email was the most interesting bit. Over the phone and hence more off the record he explained that they, the LABC, initially had had some major issues inspecting electrical works. They were sending out inspectors who had very little electrical knowledge who were trying to argue with competent sparks. In reality the inspector was more used to turning up with a tape and seeing if your footings were deep enough. Seems they, the LABC, came a cropper on more than a few occasions. As a stop gap they employed outside contractors who did all the councils work anyway and gave them an inspector's badge for the day! So you would have a subbie for the council turning up to inspect your work. I did at the time think there must be openings for electrically qualified LABC inspectors!

Bottom line with my LABC in practice is that I can do the work but still have to pay the fee.

Cheers​

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[GLENNSPARK]

its a sow up....

 

[Engineer54]

Any Electrician, that can prove he is a qualified competent electrician should be able to be registered with his local council. Once registered there should be no fee whatsoever involved, or only the same fee that a scheme provider pays ...if they pay the council fee's at all!!


As far as i gather, if your registered with a council as an approved qualified electrician, then you don't need to be with scheme provider, and don't need a third party inspection, by the council, or a by a councils allocated electrical contractor on there behalf... Which is where these extortionate council fee's derive from!!

 

[clicon357]

Any Electrician, that can prove he is a qualified competent electrician should be able to be registered with his local council. Once registered there should be no fee whatsoever involved, or only the same fee that a scheme provider pays ...if they pay the council fee's at all!!


As far as i gather, if your registered with a council as an approved qualified electrician, then you don't need to be with scheme provider, and don't need a third party inspection, by the council, or a by a councils allocated electrical contractor on there behalf... Which is where these extortionate council fee's derive from!!

So how do you register with said council? And what do you need to register? Is there a website etc that explains this? Cheers.

 

[Geordie Spark]

its a sow up....

You mean pigs can fly ???

 

[dixon9]

does part p make you any superior to anyone else no it was a big con that ended up costing a lot of decent electricians lots of work

put the shoe on the other foot would you pay someone to do a job you can quite happily do?

My question has nothing to do with "superiority" but was with regard to the economic aspect. If I read you correctly, what you are saying is we should all not bother with paying Part-P...just phone up the council and fax them our qualifications and certs?

 

[telectrix]

My question has nothing to do with "superiority" but was with regard to the economic aspect. If I read you correctly, what you are saying is we should all not bother with paying Part-P...just phone up the council and fax them our qualifications and certs?

that's how it should be. these scam providers are in it for the money, yours and mine, and thus, eventually , our customers' cash. by increasing our costs, they are pushing up the cost of doing the job right, so encouraging joe public to get the guy in the pub to do it for half the price. enter the cowboy. the very thing part p was set up for to stop.

 

[timo1]

I think the part P message is getting through albeit slowly. I know of several people who have had house prices reduced due to no electrical documentation being present for extensions / loft conversions etc.. The simple answer to the question asked is you have to notify the work, you can get away with lots of things that are against the law but we are stuck with it the way it is.

TBH if you are doing domestic work the cost for a scheme is easily covered over the course of a year, I know a couple of sparks who just could not be bothered with the faff (and the exam) the cost was not the main issue.

 

[tuckermot]

I was part p reg but i am no more due to the cost !! most domestic situations require this building reg i know but ask any domestic customer about part p and they look at you like your mad !!! they don,t care they just want a job doing. I only work part time in this field now as i could not compete against cash unregesterd sparkies who have decided to ignore the part p regs.the thing is most do a fantstic job good luck to them !!!

 

[Geordie Spark]

My question has nothing to do with "superiority" but was with regard to the economic aspect. If I read you correctly, what you are saying is we should all not bother with paying Part-P...just phone up the council and fax them our qualifications and certs?

The only thing I want from my council is my bin emptied, the streetlights working & the potholes filled in. Other than that I want nowt to do with the corrupt so and sos.