Query wiring on house purchase.

[A5TR4L]

Hi everyone,

Just purchased a new place and have already stripped out all the rooms as plan a complete renovation.

Whilst everything is bare I wanted to ensure nothing seems amiss with the electrical side of things. Previous owner had the house re wired a few years ago and the sparky even left a floor plan of how everything is hooked up.....she didn’t have a receipt or proof of work so just want to make sure everything sounds ok.

So the CU is a metal cased 10way Crabtree unit with Iso switch and has been fitted completely with rcbo’s, so most things are on their own circuit.

So.
32a RCBO for downstairs sockets set in a radial circuit with 2.5mm T+E cable.
32a RCBO for upstairs sockets set in a radial circuit with 2.5mm T+E cable.
6a RCBO for downstairs lighting, loop in/out setup on 1.5mm T+E cable
6a RCBO for upstairs lighting, loop in/out setup on 1.5mm T+E cable.
6a RCBO for combi boiler in 1.5mm T+E cable, which goes to a 3a fuse switch in wall which then goes to boiler.
32a RCBO for cooker in 6mm T+E cable wired into a double pole iso switch before cooker. Cooker rated max at 16kw
20a RCBO for fridge on 2.5mm T+E cable


I’m no electrician just writing what I have in front of me, the house is quite small so cable runs aren’t that long and from what the previous owner told me all wiring has been fitted with plenty of air and not through any insulation etc

So at a glance does that seem to be ok, I’d rather get some opinions before i start fitting walls/floors as you may see something that should be re looked at.

Thanks for your time.

 

[KEV 1 N]

If you want full confidence in the wiring etc, employ a local electrician to carry out an Electrical Installation Condition Report (EICR) and he/she will verify the suitability and any faults on the system.
Incidentally If the up and down sockets are RADIALS on a 32a rcbo, then they should be on 20a rcbos unless they are wired as a RING.

 

[Pete999]

Hi everyone,

Just purchased a new place and have already stripped out all the rooms as plan a complete renovation.

Whilst everything is bare I wanted to ensure nothing seems amiss with the electrical side of things. Previous owner had the house re wired a few years ago and the sparky even left a floor plan of how everything is hooked up.....she didn’t have a receipt or proof of work so just want to make sure everything sounds ok.

So the CU is a metal cased 10way Crabtree unit with Iso switch and has been fitted completely with rcbo’s, so most things are on their own circuit.

So.
32a RCBO for downstairs sockets set in a radial circuit with 2.5mm T+E cable.
32a RCBO for upstairs sockets set in a radial circuit with 2.5mm T+E cable.
6a RCBO for downstairs lighting, loop in/out setup on 1.5mm T+E cable
6a RCBO for upstairs lighting, loop in/out setup on 1.5mm T+E cable.
6a RCBO for combi boiler in 1.5mm T+E cable, which goes to a 3a fuse switch in wall which then goes to boiler.
32a RCBO for cooker in 6mm T+E cable wired into a double pole iso switch before cooker. Cooker rated max at 16kw
20a RCBO for fridge on 2.5mm T+E cable


I’m no electrician just writing what I have in front of me, the house is quite small so cable runs aren’t that long and from what the previous owner told me all wiring has been fitted with plenty of air and not through any insulation etc

So at a glance does that seem to be ok, I’d rather get some opinions before i start fitting walls/floors as you may see something that should be re looked at.

Thanks for your time.

Hi Mate I'm assuming you are not an Electrician, and have know knowledge of the BS 7671 The Bible Electricians are supposed to work to.
For a socket radial to be protected by an OCPD (fuse or circuit breaker of 30 or 32 Amps) it would need to be wired in 4mm2 cable, historically the floor are covered would be limited to 75M2.
Radials wired in 2.5mm2 cable should be protected by a 20Amp OCPD and be limited to a floor area of 50M2.
All this information can be accessed in BS 7671 Appendix 15 table 15B,Regulation 433.1.204 Pages 453/454 Hope this helps.

 

[FatAlan]

Would have thought there’d be an electrical installation certificate around somewhere if it had a rewire. Was this picked up when you bought the place?

 

[Octopus]

Given what you plan to do, I would recommend that you get a local spark to take a look - and as above the sockets need looking at - but why do you think they are radials?

 

[Pete999]

Given what you plan to do, I would recommend that you get a local spark to take a look - and as above the sockets need looking at - but why do you think they are radials?

Yes forgot to ask that question, silly of me really.

 

[Des 56]

Assuming you have used the word radial instead of ring on the 2.5mm 32 amp circuits
The layout and choice of rcbos makes it to be on the upper side of quality for a distribution board
Hopefully the rest of the installation and its quality mirrors that choice

You will be disturbing the electrical installation and it would be sensible to have it tested and inspected (probably best after your work is complete)in the meantime pay a spark to have a look to see if anything is amiss

 

[buzzlightyear]

Previous owner had the house re wired a few years ago and the sparky even left a floor plan of how everything is hooked up.....she didn’t have a receipt or proof of work so just want to make sure everything sounds ok.

looks like foreigner from another country did the job ,ask the people who sold you the house were is the test certs or contact the solicitors. now for me alarm bells would start ring .

 

[A5TR4L]

Thank you all so much for the replies.
Yes as stated I’m not an electrician, she said there was a cert which she misplaced :/ I think I’ll get someone in to have a look as literally the house is completely bare.

Whether radials or rings I’m not sure as these notes are what she wrote down from what the electrician said he was going to fit.

Thanks for all the info, I’ll get someone in for peace of mind .

 

[buzzlightyear]

she said there was a cert which she misplaced :/ I think I’ll get someone in to have a look as literally the house is completely bare.

then she can ring the spark for copy's then.

 

[Midwest]

then she can ring the spark for copy's then.

Can imagine how that phone call will go, now they are no longer the owners, 'Hello, who's that, Mr/Ms A5TR4L..........................................' end click, buuuuurrrrro (my best phone going dead interpretation)

Could work though, mind.

 

[FatAlan]

Should be able to check with building control to see if the EIC was registered.

 

[NDG Elecs]

Works with me Mid. I will happily (read begrudgingly!) trawl through my paper certs to send out if required. Thankfully a lot of it is now stored in the cloud as PDFs, so dead easy to resend.

To the OP; if you are doing major works to the house I would defo get an EICR done - it's the perfect time to do so IMO. The fact that the previous electrician has fitted all RCBOs and provided cable routes says to me they are probably one of the better sparks out there, but only way to tell is via an EICR. Good on you for wanting to get it all sorted, many homeowners completely and utterly neglect the electrics.

 

[Madocks]

A) It was rewired by DIY dave, never had certs and the work not notified to building control. Lady missplaced the cert

B) Was installed correctly and she missplaced the cert, if it has a metal consumer unit then its pretty recent. Any stickers on the Unit to indicate who installed? Get in contact with them for a copy.

 

[Midwest]

Works with me Mid. I will happily (read begrudgingly!) trawl through my paper certs to send out if required. Thankfully a lot of it is now stored in the cloud as PDFs, so dead easy to resend.

Just to show I have a conscience, two recent customers were after their certs' which I had diligently sent them. But now 'cos their selling their house, and their solicitors wanted copies, the certs suddenly become important. I of course, could of just told them to contact Elecsa, and get copies at £3.50 each. But as Elecsa make enough money, I just re-sent them copies. Ain't I a tart!

 

[NDG Elecs]

I'm the same Mid, generally will happily email a copy of the cert through for nothing. Depends partly in the tone of the customer - if the are nice then resend no charge, if they are bottomy then charge em!

 

[PEG]

I'm the same Mid, generally will happily email a copy of the cert through for nothing. Depends partly in the tone of the customer - if the are nice then resend no charge, if they are bottomy then charge em!

Is this an adjective,or a noun? ...Either way,i will be borrowing this term,and re-issuing it,tonight,at me sister's party

 

[Pete999]

Hi Mate I'm assuming you are not an Electrician, and have know knowledge of the BS 7671 The Bible Electricians are supposed to work to.
For a socket radial to be protected by an OCPD (fuse or circuit breaker of 30 or 32 Amps) it would need to be wired in 4mm2 cable, historically the floor are covered would be limited to 75M2.
Radials wired in 2.5mm2 cable should be protected by a 20Amp OCPD and be limited to a floor area of 50M2.
All this information can be accessed in BS 7671 Appendix 15 table 15B,Regulation 433.1.204 Pages 453/454 Hope this helps.

Why the disagree? grateful for your reasoning Redjodi

 

[Dave OCD]

Pete, I've noticed that often the 'disagrees','dislikes', 'bad spelling', 'old' and 'dumb' flags on posts are by members that I've never heard of who never post anything so wouldn't let it bother you mate.

 

[Pete999]

Pete, I've noticed that often the 'disagrees','dislikes', 'bad spelling', 'old' and 'dumb' flags on posts are by members that I've never heard of who never post anything so wouldn't let it bother you mate.

Thanks Dave not bothered actually, just ticks me off when someone disagrees, dislikes, without giving a reason, bad manners I suppose.

 

[Des 56]

I noticed what Dave stated,the dumb and dislike flags are usually by people who don't or rarely post
It seems they are prepared to judge posts without putting their own up for scrutiny
They could do with being restricted until they have shown some involvement with the forum

 

[Dave OCD]

Me too Pete, they never seem to appear again though, probably know as much about electrics as we know about crochet. BTW - didn't get tools as such for Christmas but did get a nice new van roof bar set and pipe tube. [Also new mats and seat covers].

 

[Pete999]

Me too Pete, they never seem to appear again though, probably know as much about electrics as we know about crochet. BTW - didn't get tools as such for Christmas but did get a nice new van roof bar set and pipe tube. [Also new mats and seat covers].

Nice

 

[NDG Elecs]

Me too Pete, they never seem to appear again though, probably know as much about electrics as we know about crochet. BTW - didn't get tools as such for Christmas but did get a nice new van roof bar set and pipe tube. [Also new mats and seat covers].

I can crochet like a demon Mr Dave!

 

[Dave OCD]

No way ?!

 

[NDG Elecs]

Thanks Dave not bothered actually, just ticks me off when someone disagrees, dislikes, without giving a reason, bad manners I suppose.

I always try to see the best in people, possibly to my detriment sometimes...but a possible explanation is the use of touch screen smartphones. I know I have been at home looking at this forum on more than one occasion, whilst half dozing after a busy day, and accidentally rested my sleepy finger on bad spelling or dislike etc. And when I wake up 30 minutes later I find an alert asking why I disagree with a post I agree with! So it might be trigger happy smart phones Pete.
I got a bad spelling one tonight mate.

 

[Pete999]

I always try to see the best in people, possibly to my detriment sometimes...but a possible explanation is the use of touch screen smartphones. I know I have been at home looking at this forum on more than one occasion, whilst half dozing after a busy day, and accidentally rested my sleepy finger on bad spelling or dislike etc. And when I wake up 30 minutes later I find an alert asking why I disagree with a post I agree with! So it might be trigger happy smart phones Pete.
I got a bad spelling one tonight mate.

Could be Mate, but why does the poster not reply to my question.

 

[pirate]

Dave, love that you got tax-deductible gifts for christmas! That's romantic!

 

[Toneyz]

Me too Pete, they never seem to appear again though, probably know as much about electrics as we know about crochet. BTW - didn't get tools as such for Christmas but did get a nice new van roof bar set and pipe tube. [Also new mats and seat covers].

Don't rub it in as I bet Pete got those socks I said he would get as Mrs Pete said no tools.

 

[Pete999]

Don't rub it in as I bet Pete got those socks I said he would get as Mrs Pete said no tools.

Socks, A bottle of Malt and an Electricians Tea and coffee mug in tin.

 

[Midwest]

I always try to see the best in people, possibly to my detriment sometimes...but a possible explanation is the use of touch screen smartphones. I know I have been at home looking at this forum on more than one occasion, whilst half dozing after a busy day, and accidentally rested my sleepy finger on bad spelling or dislike etc. And when I wake up 30 minutes later I find an alert asking why I disagree with a post I agree with! So it might be trigger happy smart phones Pete.
I got a bad spelling one tonight mate.

Think you are being too kind.

 

[Toneyz]

Socks, A bottle of Malt and an Electricians Tea and coffee mug in tin.

Did well this year then, read the P.E.mag the other day they have people testing tools and doing a write-up article ideal job for your good self.

 

[NDG Elecs]

Could be Mate, but why does the poster not reply to my question.

That I can't answer... Unless they are still asleep maybe

 

[NDG Elecs]

Think you are being too kind.

I don't disagree with you Mid, maybe I am being too kind. But it has defo happened to me a few times mate.

 

[A5TR4L]

Thanks for all the input guys, I’ve got a sparky coming round in the new year.... did call up the old owner to query who/what/when etc......pretty much the response ‘me speaky no engrish’ lol so, all I can assume is a friend of a friend of a friend of a friend did the install maybe on the sly to get the house on the market, either way atleast someone is coming to asses everything.....let’s hope there’s no hidden surprises laying in wait. Have a fantastic new year and thanks for all the advice

 

[buzzlightyear]

look at post#8,keep us up to date how this go on .

 

[Dave OCD]

Dave, love that you got tax-deductible gifts for christmas! That's romantic!

I'm actually well chuffed mate, my Mrs puts a lot of thought into these things and I have enough socks and after shave to last a good few years. I also got a lovely new motorbike crash helmet,Shoei GT Air which is real quality so I've been very fortunate this Christmas.

 

[ipf]

Thanks for all the input guys, I’ve got a sparky coming round in the new year.... did call up the old owner to query who/what/when etc......pretty much the response ‘my sparky no engrish’ lol so, all I can assume is a friend of a friend of a friend of a friend did the install maybe on the sly to get the house on the market, either way atleast someone is coming to asses everything.....let’s hope there’s no hidden surprises laying in wait. Have a fantastic new year and thanks for all the advice

Just corrected that for you....

 

[A5TR4L]

Happy new year everyone!

So I had the electrician around this morning, he proceeded to do his tests at the sockets and consumer unit etc.

At the end he said all the tests were fine, everything appeared to be in good shape. To issue a cert he did say that he would need to inspect all parts of the cable runs that aren’t currently visible since it’s his reputation/job on the line etc which I fully understand, so I’ve booked him in next week to do the destruction he needs to do etc to be able to sign everything off.

The only thing he mentioned that was a little odd when he saw the notes that I mentioned to you guys in the very first post was the cooker was put on its own circuit 32a rcbo using 6mm cabling yet the cooker (came with house) is fully gas operated which he said was crazy overkill. Other than that he seemed happy with everything.

Is it ok to leave this cooker on this circuit? I may plan to go induction once the house is finished, but In the mean time is it ok to run this low powered cooker on such a beefy circuit?

Thank you.

 

[Pete999]

Happy new year everyone!

So I had the electrician around this morning, he proceeded to do his tests at the sockets and consumer unit etc.

At the end he said all the tests were fine, everything appeared to be in good shape. To issue a cert he did say that he would need to inspect all parts of the cable runs that aren’t currently visible since it’s his reputation/job on the line etc which I fully understand, so I’ve booked him in next week to do the destruction he needs to do etc to be able to sign everything off.

The only thing he mentioned that was a little odd when he saw the notes that I mentioned to you guys in the very first post was the cooker was put on its own circuit 32a rcbo using 6mm cabling yet the cooker (came with house) is fully gas operated which he said was crazy overkill. Other than that he seemed happy with everything.

Is it ok to leave this cooker on this circuit? I may plan to go induction once the house is finished, but In the mean time is it ok to run this low powered cooker on such a beefy circuit?

Thank you.

This Electrician that visited your House was or is he registered with any of the Competent Persons Schemes, NICEIC, NAPIT to name a couple?
How much did you pay for his first visit and did he issue you with a certificate (an Electrical Installation Condition Report) EICR for short.
He is going to come back an inspect every cable in your house? quite frankly he is talking out of his bottom. An EICR should take the form as described in the best practice guide. Hope this helps please let us know how you get on.
I would suspect the original Cooker circuit in your house was an Electric one hence the 6mm cooker circuit, if you are connecting your gas Cooker via a 13 amp socket outlet then the fuse in the plug top will be sufficient protection.

 

[A5TR4L]

Hey,

He was Niceic registered and charged £25 to check each circuit in the house.

I was a bit confused, because of what he said I assumed since he didn’t fit the installation he wouldn’t sign it off until he verified that everything was ok In terms of cable runs being routed adequately as he mentioned something about the way cables are routed can affect how they perform, which could dictate what rcbo will protect them.

So reading your reply is there 2 separate certificates that are issued EICR as you mentioned which verifies everything is in good working order, and I assume there’s a separate one that is issued to show the work has been completed by a professional to meet regulations? If so should he have issued me an eicr regardless of whether he can sign the work off?

With regards to the cooker it plugs into a cooker socket. 3 pin socket on the right that the cooker plugs into and on the left a red isolation switch. I believe the 6mm cable runs from the back of this socket to the consumer.

 

[Pete999]

Hey,

He was Niceic registered and charged £25 to check each circuit in the house.

I was a bit confused, because of what he said I assumed since he didn’t fit the installation he wouldn’t sign it off until he verified that everything was ok In terms of cable runs being routed adequately as he mentioned something about the way cables are routed can affect how they perform, which could dictate what rcbo will protect them.

So reading your reply is there 2 separate certificates that are issued EICR as you mentioned which verifies everything is in good working order, and I assume there’s a separate one that is issued to show the work has been completed by a professional to meet regulations? If so should he have issued me an eicr regardless of whether he can sign the work off?

With regards to the cooker it plugs into a cooker socket. 3 pin socket on the right that the cooker plugs into and on the left a red isolation switch. I believe the 6mm cable runs from the back of this socket to the consumer.

It's been a long time since I retired, so my facts may be a bit outdated, He would complete the EICR and through his Scheme (NICEIC) who would do what is required, what is worrying me, is you saying he is coming back to lift up boards etc, he should issue you with a copy of the EICR, one copy for his records and one copy to his scheme, if you are concerned at all, then I suggest you give NICEIC help desk a call and clarify matters, after all if he is registered with them they should be able to advise, me personally, from what you say, I'm not that sure of this Guys competence.

 

[A5TR4L]

Thanks Pete I’ll give them a ring just incase. He came highly rated on all the trusted trade sites so I thought I’d be ok. Maybe because I don’t have the cert of when the install was done he can’t issue me anything till that’s there? I don’t know, I’ll give them a call and see what they say. Thank you.

 

[Pete999]

Thanks Pete I’ll give them a ring just incase. He came highly rated on all the trusted trade sites so I thought I’d be ok. Maybe because I don’t have the cert of when the install was done he can’t issue me anything till that’s there? I don’t know, I’ll give them a call and see what they say. Thank you.

Ah "trusted trader" now there is a misnomer. An EICR is what it is a condition report on the install as is, he should give you a cert. Give them a ring and take it from there

 

[Des 56]

Trusted trader oh my oh my,you are definitely off to a bad start if you want to get things done satisfactory

The electrician looking at your installation should not be issuing you a "certificate"
The electrical installation certificate can only be issued by the installer of the wiring

You need a report,its called a EICR,it should inform you and any interested parties on the condition of your installation

Unfortunately there is no requirement that restricts any person from doing that report,only that they consider themselves competent

 

[littlespark]

Kinda old thread now, but how did OP get on?
Did new spark go to the effort of checking the full length of every cable?
An EICR would give enough info for him to say its 'satisfactory' and put your mind at rest. Doesn't involve pulling up floors etc.
What about the 2.5mm radials? were they 4mm radials, or 2.5mm rings?