how to become a domestic installer

[fozzer]

Hi I am looking to become a domestic installer can someone recommend what course or courses I need to do to be able to do this. also can you tell me what the job entails. I have found the basic information and also how much they earn. thanks

 

[The Ghost]

How much do they earn as a matter of interest?

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

Haha.. this thread will get entertaining so get the pop corn out.
Basically the quick way is do the crash courses. 17th and 2392 as a minimum. Change the cu or wire up your shed at home. Get a multi tester and some insurance and then do the multi choice test from niceic at home. As long as your cheque clears. You arent a numpty on your assessment and all the paperwork is in order you are in....
It doesnt make you competent or safe though.
That only comes with time and experience. Each to there own. I know ex forces people who have gone this route and work within there limits... on the other hand there are some right dodgy cowboys out there who have gone down this route.
Its a contentious issue on here and only you know if you are sufficiently skilled to be safe

 

[Andy78]

You can apply with any number of training centres who will give you an expensive package that will ill equip you for a life working as an electrician. There are loads online if you search.
The job will entail working in domestic situations installing simple circuits safely, but don't worry too much about the safety aspect, as with the basic info provided on course you go on combined with the OSG, you can pretty much wire by numbers and not worry about any in depth knowledge as to the physics involved.
Wages you say ? Well wages will vary depending on experience, of which you will have none as the short courses do not teach the craft but merely how to get through some multi choice exams. Your wages will also be limited, even with experience, by the poor excuse for qualifications you will end up with.

Hope this helps.

 

[Pete999]

Haha.. this thread will get entertaining so get the pop corn out.
Basically the quick way is do the crash courses. 17th and 2392 as a minimum. Change the cu or wire up your shed at home. Get a multi tester and some insurance and then do the multi choice test from niceic at home. As long as your cheque clears. You arent a numpty on your assessment and all the paperwork is in order you are in....
It doesnt make you competent or safe though.
That only comes with time and experience. Each to there own. I know ex forces people who have gone this route and work within there limits... on the other hand there are some right dodgy cowboys out there who have gone down this route.
Its a contentious issue on here and only you know if you are sufficiently skilled to be safe

Couldn't have put it better, a farce none the less, not you Gavin.

 

[Loki]

Hi,

The domestic installer is really aimed at people who want to work for themselves & become part p registered.
You never see jobs advertising for domestic installer its always fully qualified electrician with JIB.

What is it you want to do? self employed or work for someone?

All the best

Michael

 

[Andy78]

Hi,

The domestic installer is really aimed at people who want to work for themselves & become part p registered.
You never see jobs advertising for domestic installer its always fully qualified electrician with JIB.

What is it you want to do? self employed or work for someone?

All the best

Michael

Depends. Big new build companies are crying out for poorly trained workers they can exploit.

 

[Loki]

Depends. Big new build companies are crying out for poorly trained workers they can exploit.

Very true, especially agencies

 

[fozzer]

Hi Michael work for someone when I was in my last year at school I wanted to get a job as an electrician but the college I went to never did it and I didn't leave with the grades needed to get on to the course. What would you suggest thanks

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

Couldn't have put it better, a farce none the less, not you Gavin.

No worries Pete, no offence taken. the short course route can work for some, and they are few.. ie long serving sparks mates or former engineers and skilled trades from the forces in particular reme or avionics engineers. for somebody with no prior experience the five week wonder route is a false economy.

 

[7029 dave]

Domestic installer, never heard of such an animal.?

 

[fozzer]

What is my best bet. Because with the apprenticeship there like hens teeth all these courses are supposed to be a quick route and there not cheap I couldn' go to college as I work all week. Thanks

 

[The Ghost]

Maybe the way to go about it is look for work first and then when you have some experience under your belt go for the course. It will be much better for you as trying to understand the course without hands on experience is very difficult.

 

[The Ghost]

But in your case probably more like 25.
Wannabe.

A tad harsh perhaps?

 

[fozzer]

Thanks for that advice chris thats fantastic

 

[telectrix]

you can do a proper college course 2 evenings a week and get a "proper" qualification . couple that with 3 years work as a sparks' mate (maybe with agency) and then you can go on to am2 and nvq3.

 

[Devonchris]

A tad harsh perhaps?

Yes I agree. On reflection it was not necessary. Apologies.

 

[MDJ]

LOL Brilliant

 

[Loki]

@fozzer

I see you have put your location as Liverpool

If you can not get an apprenticeship then the following route

Electro Technical Installations 2365 Level 2 Diploma | The City of Liverpool College - http://www.liv-coll.ac.uk/City-amp-Guilds-2365-Level-2-Diploma-in-Electro-Technical-Installations-c254.html

Electro Technical Installations 2365 Level 3 Diploma | The City of Liverpool College - http://www.liv-coll.ac.uk/City-amp-Guilds-2365-Level-3-Diploma-in-Electro-Technical-Installations-c255.html

NVQ3 portfolio
NVQ 2357 Level 3 Electrical Installation | XS Training - https://xstraining.com/nvq-2357-electrical-installation/

Then AM2 exam


Hope that helps


Michael

 

[MJPD29]

Id follow tels advice and do it the long and as he said 'proper' way. You'll certainly be a lot safer and more comptent after. I' also intersted in what you have seen that they earn?

 

[Spoon]

I have found the basic information and also how much they earn. thanks

Hi Fozzer. As in post #2, I am also curious as to what figure was given for 'how much they earn'.

 

[Dillb]

What is my best bet. Because with the apprenticeship there like hens teeth all these courses are supposed to be a quick route and there not cheap I couldn' go to college as I work all week. Thanks

what is this "domestic installer" you talk of?

Ahh the good old I cant do it properly because I go to work excuse. Then maybe either make the sacrifice to your job to ensure you can make time to do it properly, too many people think theres a quick fix method to becoming a electrician, when in reality there isnt. Many of us didnt spend many years going to college and learning the trade along side experienced people for a laugh you know.

 

[Spoon]

what is this "domestic installer" you talk of?

Ahh the good old I cant do it properly because I go to work excuse. Then maybe either make the sacrifice to your job to ensure you can make time to do it properly, too many people think theres a quick fix method to becoming a electrician, when in reality there isnt. Many of us didnt spend many years going to college and learning the trade along side experienced people for a laugh you know.

Totally disagree with this mate. The circumstance of people differ and these shorter courses will suit some people, as long as they know the limitations of the course.

 

[Dillb]

Totally disagree with this mate. The circumstance of people differ and these shorter courses will suit some people, as long as they know the limitations of the course.

Utter crap, sorry. How would you prove comptance if something went ---- up. Ohh but the bloke at the Electrical Trainee trainging center said I was a qualified electrician. Were talking about something you cant smell or see only feel which can be fatal here, or is that ok cos he didnt have time to learn the trade and all the sciences behind it properly?

 

[Spoon]

Utter crap, sorry. How would you prove comptance if something went ---- up. Ohh but the bloke at the Electrical Trainee trainging center said I was a qualified electrician. Were talking about something you cant smell or see only feel which can be fatal here, or is that ok cos he didnt have time to learn the trade and all the sciences behind it properly?

Think you misread my post mate. I'm not saying anyone who does a Electrical Trainee should then think they are capable of doing a full rewire on a house. "as long as they know the limitations of the course."

 

[MDJ]

I think a DI card should be handed out, if you do a DI course, the card should say for Domestic work only (for example) this will calm the commercial and industrial guys who have done proper full length apprenticeships and only allow the DIs to work on the type of installation they have been trained on. for what it is worth I also hate the name DI, but it is what the short course training centres call their trainees when the courses are complete, so we will just have to learn to live with it.

 

[Dillb]

Think you misread my post mate. I'm not saying anyone who does a Electrical Trainee should then think they are capable of doing a full rewire on a house. "as long as they know the limitations of the course."

But we dont know the OPs limitations do we? So we have to give the advice thats appropriate to what we know about them.

 

[Dillb]

I think a DI card should be handed out, if you do a DI course, the card should say for Domestic work only (for example) this will calm the commercial and industrial guys who have done proper full length apprenticeships and only allow the DIs to work on the type of installation they have been trained on. for what it is worth I also hate the name DI, but it is what the short course training centres call their trainees when the courses are complete, so we will just have to learn to live with it.

Come on Mike, thats the sort of attitude which has led to this thing happening in the first place, we need to make a stand and try and resolve this quick fix issue.

 

[Spoon]

But we dont know the OPs limitations do we? So we have to give the advice thats appropriate to what we know about them.

It's hard to know anything about the OP as he has not posted in quite a bit. Still wanting the know this magical wage figure.

 

[Andy78]

I think a DI card should be handed out, if you do a DI course, the card should say for Domestic work only (for example) this will calm the commercial and industrial guys who have done proper full length apprenticeships and only allow the DIs to work on the type of installation they have been trained on. for what it is worth I also hate the name DI, but it is what the short course training centres call their trainees when the courses are complete, so we will just have to learn to live with it.

No, don't give them a card, that will only encourage them. I can imagine them now turning up at a callout and holding up the card with a puffed out chest. "It's OK madam, Joe Bloggs, domestic installer, what seems to be the problem ?"

 

[MDJ]

Come on Mike, thats the sort of attitude which has led to this thing happening in the first place, we need to make a stand and try and resolve this quick fix issue.

I know mate, but it not only is happening it has happened and it is still happening, so unless something changes which the powers that be decide needs changing the only thing really is to limit the short course takers to domestic only, I am not saying I like it fella, just that we are where we are and damage limitation must be the way for now, I hope you understand where I am coming from.

 

[MDJ]

Come on Mike, thats the sort of attitude which has led to this thing happening in the first place, we need to make a stand and try and resolve this quick fix issue.

I know mate, but it not only is happening it has happened and it is still happening, so unless something changes which the powers that be decide needs changing the only thing really is to limit the short course takers to domestic only, I am not saying I like it fella, just that we are where we are and damage limitation must be the way for now, I hope you understand where I am coming from.

No, don't give them a card, that will only encourage them. I can imagine them now turning up at a callout and holding up the card with a puffed out chest. "It's OK madam, Joe Bloggs, domestic installer, what seems to be the problem ?"

It wouldn't be my choice to deal out cards, I am suggesting it is a way of stopping the short course domestic guys getting into the commercial and industrial side of things, currently when you are on some sites all types of people turn up with a card which has never normally been seen before saying they are qualified, they last a day on site and go away with their tail between their legs. IMO they should never walk onto the site, but if they have a card which says they are not allowed to work on anything non domestic then this is a start. Obviously I am not happy with that either but it is a way under the current situation to stop the mass of unskilled short coursers getting onto construction sites, just saying

 

[Andy78]

I know mate, but it not only is happening it has happened and it is still happening, so unless something changes which the powers that be decide needs changing the only thing really is to limit the short course takers to domestic only, I am not saying I like it fella, just that we are where we are and damage limitation must be the way for now, I hope you understand where I am coming from.

It wouldn't be my choice to deal out cards, I am suggesting it is a way of stopping the short course domestic guys getting into the commercial and industrial side of things, currently when you are on some sites all types of people turn up with a card which has never normally been seen before saying they are qualified, they last a day on site and go away with their tail between their legs. IMO they should never walk onto the site, but if they have a card which says they are not allowed to work on anything non domestic then this is a start. Obviously I am not happy with that either but it is a way under the current situation to stop the mass of unskilled short coursers getting onto construction sites, just saying

Surely the current system of them not being able to get an ECS card of any merit works just fine ?

 

[Spoon]

we are where we are

Not getting at you @MDJ but this is one of those sayings that I REALLY dislike. Like "It is what it is"..
Usually used by people who have not taken the advice of others and things have not gone to plan.
I have always wanted to grab their heads and smash it against the table and when they complain just say "It is what it is.... Lets move on.."
Going for a coffee now, whinge over....

 

[MDJ]

Surely the current system of them not being able to get an ECS card of any merit works just fine ?

Does it? I have seen cards that I have never heard of before which some of these guys carry with them, they go on agencies and are sent to sites from the agencies when companies ask for sparks. I have seen them lol, they are just crazy. By time the company has sussed them out they have been on site at least a whole day or even two before they get sent packing and the job has suffered. I have spoken to agencies about why they send these guys to site, they say well they are electricians they have a card lol, perhaps better monitoring or entries to site is the way forward, but on big sites guys can get lost for a day or two before they are discovered.

 

[MDJ]

Not getting at you @MDJ but this is one of those sayings that I REALLY dislike. Like "It is what it is"..
Usually used by people who have not taken the advice of others and things have not gone to plan.
I have always wanted to grab their heads and smash it against the table and when they complain just say "It is what it is.... Lets move on.."
Going for a coffee now, whinge over....

well we are where we are, we have complained for years about short courses, if anything they are more numerous now than ever before, we have not been able to stop them, so rather than punish the people taking them by constantly moking them, they should be limited to only the work the course has trained them for, lol, if they have been trained of course. It is about 6k for some of these courses and they have been exploited and when it is over they think they are qualified, what can be done? we have been discussing and arguing this for years and it is just not stopping, if anything it is growing even bigger lol, now come and smash my hand against the table

 

[Andy78]

Ah right, wasn't aware that spurious cards issued by training providers exist.
That's down to a failing of the agencies and site managers for not checking credentials surely and not a failing of the current card system ?

 

[MDJ]

Ah right, wasn't aware that spurious cards issued by training providers exist.
That's down to a failing of the agencies and site managers for not checking credentials surely and not a failing of the current card system ?

It is criminal really, they spend 6K, get a bit of plastic with Electrician written on it and they are sent into the big wide world and then crucified, and the biggest problem is it is growing as well, more around now than ever before hence a limitation card as a temporary means to limit their work until this mess gets sorted out, if it ever does.

 

[MDJ]

Obviously I wouldn't issue any card myself, but the training companies need to give them something at the end of 5 weeks.

 

[Dillb]

Obviously I wouldn't issue any card myself, but the training companies need to give them something at the end of 5 weeks.

If thats the case then the training companies should becoem more responsible and accountable of who they send out with these cards.

 

[Spoon]

If thats the case then the training companies should becoem more responsible and accountable of who they send out with these cards.

haha... They have their money... They are happy...

 

[Pete999]

Obviously I wouldn't issue any card myself, but the training companies need to give them something at the end of 5 weeks.

A refund? now that's dumb

 

[westward10]

Obviously I wouldn't issue any card myself, but the training companies need to give them something at the end of 5 weeks.

Yeah a T-shirt with the logo I am not an electrician.

 

[Adam W]

There is already a suitable card for 'DIs'; it's got 'Ancillary Operative' printed on it.

The sites in question could do their bit by insisting on seeing an ECS card at induction - anyone who turns up with a Micky Mouse card gets sent packing and the agency don't get paid. Things will soon change then.

At my local college the first thing they would do is break you down and let you know who was there to learn and who knew what they were talking about; the fly by night training centres seem to do the opposite and spend the duration of the course pandering to the 'customer' with the aim of having them walking out of the training centre feeling they successfully managed to buy their way around the system.
There's no problem with having semi-skilled operatives having a go under supervision - that's how you learn; the problems come about when semi-skilled operatives insist they don't need supervision.

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

I have long thought that if my legs and various old injuries stop me from working then i would set up one of these training centres... the profit margins are quite impressive and if you cant beat them join them! think about it every week say 6 people coming through the door paying say £3k for the courses that can be done in 18 days..- 6 new starters each week. that is £72k just from the DI courses to join a scheme... then you can throw bricklaying, plastering, kitchen fitting or the new favourite "handyman course packages" in.. as the leaflet stated ... you can register with mybuilder, rated people and other sites and start working on completion earning £20+ per hour... i know this as a friend of mines son got the course paid for as part of his community mental health support from social services and the like to help him get back on his feet after a hard period in his life... he now has work as a labourer for a maintenance firm and seems to be doing alright for himself.
I reckon there are plenty of older and retired tradespeople out there willing to work in a nice warehouse showing people how to pass a course....
I saw recently that Tradeskills4u have opened a place in Leeds now.. they must be raking it in... There seem to be more and more of these places popping up so the demand is there...

 

[Loki]

I have long thought that if my legs and various old injuries stop me from working then i would set up one of these training centres... the profit margins are quite impressive and if you cant beat them join them! think about it every week say 6 people coming through the door paying say £3k for the courses that can be done in 18 days..- 6 new starters each week. that is £72k just from the DI courses to join a scheme... then you can throw bricklaying, plastering, kitchen fitting or the new favourite "handyman course packages" in.. as the leaflet stated ... you can register with mybuilder, rated people and other sites and start working on completion earning £20+ per hour... i know this as a friend of mines son got the course paid for as part of his community mental health support from social services and the like to help him get back on his feet after a hard period in his life... he now has work as a labourer for a maintenance firm and seems to be doing alright for himself.
I reckon there are plenty of older and retired tradespeople out there willing to work in a nice warehouse showing people how to pass a course....
I saw recently that Tradeskills4u have opened a place in Leeds now.. they must be raking it in... There seem to be more and more of these places popping up so the demand is there...

If you could get the businesses / trades to come to your training centre when they need workers like agencies do, you could then do the NVQ3 side also

 

[Rob Stephen]

Got to say I had to do short courses I have 4 kids working long shifts and am now working as an improver having to take the hit in money im on alot less then an electricians mate. £8.67 an hour. I have learned alot more being on site being with a more experienced spark. Honesty I don't rate the courses I have the paperwork and certification upto 2394/2395. Those courses are just a big money maker if I could I would go back and start from school but I didn't. When I was taking my test and inspection exams I was unemployed and volunteered to work for loads of companies for free to learn as much as possible. Testing in a house full of stuff is completely different to testing in a test center. Good luck to which ever way you need to learn and earn a living but don't rush through the experiences.

 

[telectrix]

less then an electricians mate. £8.67 an hour.

that's taking the pi$$. traineee rate is £12+.

 

[Rob Stephen]

But I had no experience and practical knowledge. I have been with the company for a year now. I have come on loads as an electrician. I've done loads of periodic inspections and remedial works working with some great people and also some old timers who just let me test and sit around having an easy day. My advice is if you do the short courses start at the bottom don't go in to companies saying your a qualified spark you will get found out. my plan is to learn as much as possible from this company. Don't make money the most important thing in the early days. I've been told it will come and the better I am the easier money will come.

 

[Aaron177]

Sadly, I'm going to have to do one of these courses. Busted my --- trying to get an apprenticeship but to no avail. Only option I have left really is a domestic installer course and combine it with an electrics course at college.