All of my courses that have been paid for by an employer, have been of no use to me afterwards.
The meat factory got me a fork lift licence, which I rarely used at the meat factory, and have never used since.
The asbestos awareness, that one company provided might have been used once, but I’ve since had to do 2 more, the last being a lifetime certificate.
One company provided a course on using a HILTI DX nail gun, which I have never needed since.
I still have a couple of years to go on my First Aid certificate, so I may get to use it again?

Everything else I have, I paid for and obtained myself.
 
Where did you get a lifetime asbestos awareness certificate from?
 
Although my question hasn't been answered I would offer a payment depending what time is left on the card to the amount paid only as you have unfortunately signed an agreement with them and to leave on good terms.
It is 5 yrs starting last November
 
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A £170 lesson on reading documents before you sign them.

I would advise paying it just in case you need to work for the same company again.

Personally I'm not sure what I would do in your shoes, probably bitch and moan, kick up a fuss and end up burning my bridges.

Easy to say from behind a keyboard with loads of work. :)
 
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Speak to your union? USDAW tend to deal with warehousing and logistics, assuming that's the sector you're in?
Depends really on what your CofE says regarding repayment of training costs, you say you signed with a scribble wont wash Lister, you could mention that the company has received some sort of Tax rebates for paying for your training, but in the long run, you could be liable for repayment.
 
pay iy less the 6 months (10%) then deduct the tax (20%). so offer £120.
 
It’s all well and good saying pay a proportion, but are the proportions fair?
Seems that if he stayed until November, he wouldn’t have to pay anything.
So that’s 4 months left out of 12.
I make that about £56 left owing.
It’s no good knocking tax off, as they’ll have to pay tax on whatever the OP gives them.

Then again it’s paying for something he doesn’t need, but the company needed him to have, so why should he pay anything?
 
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It's just the cost of doing business, I think...just pay it and watch out for anything similar in the future
 
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Then again it’s paying for something he doesn’t need, but the company needed him to have, so why should he pay anything?
In my opinion he shouldn't pay anything - assuming that his version of events is complete and accurate, of course.
 
What I've written is true if it wasnt then I wouldn't be asking for other opinions on the situation
I've no problem paying for something I know I'm liable for, but when myself and 20+ others didn't realise they were signing for costs if they leave within 12 mths, I think that tells you a lot!
 
Obviously without seeing the document/form that you all signed for can't believe no one spotted it.
 
Well I'll find out this week if they mention it or not.

Some colleagues don't think the company will mention it as they won't want to create an impasse which would prevent me from going back, firm is pretty desperate for skilled labour

At the end of the day, I don't intend on returning,
whether the new job works out is largely down to me
 
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Do not pay this. Inform them in writing signed and dated that you dispute the leagality of their claim and that if they deduct this payment from your final pay packet you shall sue them.

Firstly if what you are saying is correct then the document you claim you signed does not clearly state that this is the case. Or if as you say a number of employees all of which have signed the same document and none of which are aware of this then clearly some underhand sculduggery is affoot probably the section stating this info on a previous sheet to the part thats you signed for and was never presented at the time of signing.
Ask them for a copy of the document that they say you signed.

Secondly If they never asked would you like to do it and you never requested this course then it was thrust upon you without any choice on your behalf. And as you say is of no benifit and not had any influance on you obtaining a position in your new employment.

No company can leagally deduct funds from source without making you aware of before hand unless it is because of a court order attachment. they have to inform you in writing beforehand so that you may have chance to dispute prior to it happening should it be an error.

As for good will and doors being left open if you was to pay this and then return to their employ within a month or so do you think they would then refund the money you paid them! I think not yet it would be a requirment for you to work there clearly as they are the ones who sent you on the course.
No move on and let them slam the door shut behind you dont look back and dont give the a second thought, if it was a decent company you would not even be posting this but clearly from some of the tactics they play they are cirtainly not worth loosing sleep over, not to mention i am sure some of them tactics are on the fringe of being illigal hence the fact no Union members allowed.
 
I've got a new job starting next month and my current employer is saying I have to pay for an IPAF course I did last November
I had to sign for the card when company received it, and i just put a scribble on it ,

I was told it was just saying I'd received the card, never read it ( my bad) and its come to light that I was actually signing saying that if I was to leave within 12 months that I would be liable for the £170.00 fees

I know this is common practice these days as long as the rules are followed but I've never had to sign anything like this at work tbh I didn't realise they could do it!

However I don't think it's fair to be charged fully for something for which the company may have claimed something back from the taxman ,
plus the company has had the benefit of me being able to use mewps etc for work for nearly 8 mths


I've looked at various legal sites and this contract is only valid with several inclusions

1 that the employee is clear that they are liable

2 the employee has to agree to the money being taken out at source

3 that costs should be agreed to be on a sliding scale as they've had the benefit of use of the training.

None of which has been explained in any form by the company to anyone.

Not neccesarily looking to get out of this just because of the money I just feel that they haven't done things properly and it's not fair

But they are leaving the door open for me and I would prefer to do this without burning bridges if possible
Has anyone had a similar experience or any advice on this
Without burning bridges! Bridges are gone since they ask you unfair unjustified to pay safety training fees! Any safety related training is payd by the one who is in charge of their site not the poor worker! YOU NEED BE QUALIFIED FIR THE JOB BUT ANY SAFETY RELATED PPE AND TRAINING IS IP TO THEM BECOUSE YOU ARE UNDER THEIR SAFETY RULES WHILS ON THEIR SITE! YOU AS A WORKER HAVE NO SAY ON SETTING OUT THE SITE RULES YOU JUST FOLLOW UP ! I KNIW BAD EMPLOYERS TRY TO POISON MINDS AND GET YOU PAY FOR SAFETY BUT YOU MUST NOT! IF YOU ARE SELF EMPLOYED DIFFERENT MAYBE YOU WANT TO HAVE AN IPAF BIT STILL THAT IPAF IS NOT A BLANK CHECK TO LET EMPLOYERS OFF THE HOOK THEY STILL RESPONSIBLE IPAF OR NOT THEY JUST TRAYING TO FIND LOOP HOLES IN THE LAWS TO SHIFT RESPONSIBILITY AND LIAD FEES TO WORKERS. AS PER UNIONS HMM THEY ARE OR BEEN USELESS REALLY IN TACKLING SUCH ISSUES WHICH LAOD THE WORKERS WITH EXTRA FEES WHICH ARE REALLY UNFAIR ABD UNJUSTIFIED
 
Re. the employer getting tax rebates for the initial course costs, they should treat any repayment you make as income on which they will have to pay tax, so there's not likely to be a tax scam.
 
With the bit about IANAL ...
If it was not made clear to you in advance that they'd try this chargeback on leaving, then it's not legally enforceable because it did not form part of any contract you made with your employer. Signing a piece of paper after the event, even if they did make you aware of the details, would still not make the term contractual - unless you explicitly agreed it as a variation of the original contract. Contract law is quite clear that the contract has the terms agreed at the point the contract was entered into and cannot (generally) be varied unilaterally by one party later.
As mentioned, if you say nothing, they will probably deduct it from your final pay. If you have contested that it's a valid deduction, then technically it would them become an unlawful deduction from wages - a specific law brought in to protect workers from unscrupulous employers who would tack on various made up costs in order to short-change employees. That is something you can go to an employment tribunal with, and it costs you nothing.

That, AIUI is the legal position. How you want to play it is up to you.
It is worth knowing that there is no cost going to the tribunal - the tribunal service tried adding costs, but that was struck down well and truly by the courts when challenged (IIRC by the unions standing up for their members). But, your employer should know that it will cost them a darn sight more than £170 dealing with the tribunal - even if they were to win. So perhaps a quiet conversation along the lines of "well actually, it's not something I agreed to when doing the training - so wouldn't that be an unlawful deduction that the ET takes a dim view of ?" Any manager with a few brain cells switched on should be able to decipher that and realise it will be a lot less hassle to "waive" the reimbursement.

As an aside, at a company I worked at many years ago, one of the directors told us over dinner about going to a tribunal. They'd employed an accountant, and an unsuccessful candidate took them to the ET claiming sex discrimination. So three senior managers/directors had to take a day out of the office, travel to the other end of the county, and defend the claim - which they did rather easily. The claimant said that they'd employed someone less qualified for the job simply because he was a man - and that was sex discrimination. "So", asked the panel (made up of three women), "why do you think you are more qualified than the person they did employ ?" His response was "Because she's a woman". Case dismissed, but it still cost them to defend the claim.
It's tempting to think the claimant should have to pay costs in such vexatious claims - but that then creates a financial disincentive for people (especially the lowest laid) to stand up for their rights, which was why charging for using the ET was ruled unlawful.

As for company finances/tax. The employer will have (or will depending on timing) set the cost against profits when calculating their corporation tax. So (IIRC) they'll save something like 18% of the cost of the training. Also, they'll have reclaimed the VAT element at the end of that quarter - I'm assuming they are VAT registered.
If they do charge you for the training when you leave, both of those should get reversed - though TBH I'm not sure whether such a charge would be subject to VAT or not. Essentially they should end up in the same position profits/tax wise as if they'd not paid for the training.


EDIT: Doh, and then I see it's a resurrected old thread !
 

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edexlab

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