16amp radial circuit additional sockets

[Rob Johnson]

Hi all

I am looking to add 2 additional 2G sockets to an existing 16amp radial circuit that has 2 1G sockets on it.
It’s a 3 story house and the consumer unit is in the Cellar. There are two rooms on the top floor and two radial circuits are feed from the one 16amp MCB with no RCB fitted.
I want to add 2 more 2G sockets in both rooms on each circuit. The cable is 2.5mm twin and earth.
My question is can I add the additional sockets to the existing raidial circuit with the 16amp MCB or should i / could i up rate the MCB to 20amp?

Thanks

 

[Andy78]

Would depend on the intended use of the circuit. These sockets will need to have RCD protection in some form. The alteration will also need to be fully tested upon completion.

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

if you have a lack of rcd protection at the consumer unit and cant fit one at the consumer unit or change a mcb for rcbo etc then you either need to install a rcd fused spur before the new sockets, or fit sockets with integrated rcd protection. It shouldnt add massively to the cost.
Adding a socket or two is not in itself too difficult but dont go messing around with your consumer unit yourself, get one or two local electricians round to quote. will save you any doubt about the safety of the work.

 

[Rob Johnson]

The sockets would be in the children’s bedrooms so will be used to run TV, Desktop PC/Laptop, mobile phone charger etc nothing heavy duty.

I can get the amendments tested and I think I need to get the consumer unit updated as there is no RCD protection on it.

 

[telectrix]

whast he said. ^^^^^. RCBO mihgth be the best way forward. xciuse the beer incuded shpellings.

 

[Andy78]

The sockets would be in the children’s bedrooms so will be used to run TV, Desktop PC/Laptop, mobile phone charger etc nothing heavy duty.

I can get the amendments tested and I think I need to get the consumer unit updated as there is no RCD protection on it.

If you are going to get this alteration tested by a willing electrician, then get him to design ans specify the alteration too. Pointless asking on here about what someone else would be willing to put their name to.

 

[Rob Johnson]

That’s the current consumer unit set up

 

[Andy78]

Looks like you have an old voelcb up front and potential shock hazards from the open holes in the front of the right hand board, however the current boards may be suitable for adaption for this job. I'd get an electrician in to handle this small job for you.

 

[Rob Johnson]

Anyone know what sort of cost I would be looking at to have the consumer units changed to a modem one?

 

[Richard Burns]

Looks like you have an old voelcb up front and potential shock hazards from the open holes in the front of the right hand board, however the current boards may be suitable for adaption for this job. I'd get an electrician in to handle this small job for you.

Looks like the upfront unit is an RCD as I cannot see an earth connection to it, though I may be incorrect.

 

[Andy78]

Looks like the upfront unit is an RCD as I cannot see an earth connection to it, though I may be incorrect.

Could be. I can't zoom in well enough to see either way really.

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

Anyone know what sort of cost I would be looking at to have the consumer units changed to a modem one?

You have a lot of circuits but from the pictures appears to all be on the one meter and not eco7 etc.. looks like space for a rcbo?
Consumer units dont in themselves need changing, they can be tweaked and additional rcds/rcbos etc incorporated into them, this way you keep the existing enclosures and mcbs. it will keep the cost down quite a bit. best advice is call some local electricians around and get some quotes.

 

[Rob Johnson]

 

[Deleted account]

Anyone know what sort of cost I would be looking at to have the consumer units changed to a modem one?

Between £450 and £600 for a board change.
You've got 2 boards so maybe £650-£800 plus any costs to bring up to speck on any anomalies on the testing.

 

[Rosco]

You say there is one 16A Mcb controlling two radials, each circuit should have its own mcb.

 

[Rob Johnson]

Yes I have two cables in the MCB and I have had the floor Boards up in the room as I was going to add the sockets myself, it’s definitely two radials.

You say there is one 16A Mcb controlling two radials, each circuit should have its own mcb.

 

[Rosco]

These either need to be split into their own mcbs or if possible be made into a ring and put on a 32A mcb,
IMO get an electrician to check the installation for you they have the right equipment to ensure yours and your families safety.

 

[telectrix]

You say there is one 16A Mcb controlling two radials, each circuit should have its own mcb.

not necessarily. 2 radial branches from a single MCB become 1 circuit, although separate MCBs would be an improvement due to separation of circuits reducing inconvenience if the was a fault on 1.

 

[Rosco]

not necessarily. 2 radial branches from a single MCB become 1 circuit, although separate MCBs would be an improvement due to separation of circuits reducing inconvenience if the was a fault on 1.

Thanks tel,
I’ve always thought that if you have 2 branches from on mcb being a radial the additional branch may only serve on point as per the “spur off a spur”? As these radials will have more points that is why I suggested the the two mcbs.

 

[telectrix]

no. a spur is only relevant to a ring final. that's because it's a single 2.5mm cable fed from a RFC and protected by a 32a MCB, when that single cable is only rated at 27A max. you can have several radials off a 16A or 20A MCB as that MCB has a In < the Iz of the cable/s.

 

[westward10]

Looks like the upfront unit is an RCD as I cannot see an earth connection to it, though I may be incorrect.

Definitely an rcd but cannot see its rating. Pretty sure Wylex did not produce voelcbs.

 

[Octopus]

Between £450 and £600 for a board change.
You've got 2 boards so maybe £650-£800 plus any costs to bring up to speck on any anomalies on the testing.

I wouldn't be changing those except removal of MCB's and replacing them with RCBO's ........... on the circuits that need RCD protection

 

[Toneyz]

whast he said. ^^^^^. RCBO mihgth be the best way forward. xciuse the beer incuded shpellings.

I think BEER is the only word correctly spelt.

 

[Toneyz]

These either need to be split into their own mcbs or if possible be made into a ring and put on a 32A mcb,
IMO get an electrician to check the installation for you they have the right equipment to ensure yours and your families safety.

This is my thoughts as well was just going to post the same.

 

[Midwest]

Beer free assessment, although I'm drinking a strong coffee; I would forget about the extra sockets for the time being, save up my pennies and get that mess sorted out. I dare say the rest of the install needs some tlc.

 

[Toneyz]

Looks like the upfront unit is an RCD as I cannot see an earth connection to it, though I may be incorrect.

I think it is an old Wylex double pole RCD to B.S.4293 Richard.

 

[Rpa07]

And who would take a chance pressing that ‘test button’ probably not reset - like the old VOELBs

 

[westward10]

Highly reliable those old Wylex rcds.

 

[Rpa07]

And that’s why they don’t make them anymore!

Highly reliable those old Wylex rcds.

 

[westward10]

And that’s why they don’t make them anymore!

More due to their size, technology moves on to allow a smaller package. Not necessarily for the better.

 

[123]

I wouldn't be changing those except removal of MCB's and replacing them with RCBO's ........... on the circuits that need RCD protection

There is already an up front RCD protecting the left hand consumer unit. The photo's aren't clear enough to show its rating however.

 

[Richard Burns]

Effectively there is RCD protection to the consumer units and if it is 30mA then adding the additional sockets would not be a problem, 100mA would not be acceptable for a circuit modification.
However the single RCD is not a good arrangement as it does not allow circuit level separation on earth faults.