2 singles or a double

[sparks1234]

Evening all,
Somebody has said to me that if you put a double socket in a base unit for a washing machine and tumble dryer this is against regulations and that it should be 2 single sockets because of the potential loading, before anyone shouts it has nothing to do with being directly next to the machines, we are only talking about the loading
Cheers

 

[buzzlightyear]

who told you that ,is call fabric of the building.

 

[Octopus]

Evening all,
Somebody has said to me that if you put a double socket in a base unit for a washing machine and tumble dryer this is against regulations and that it should be 2 single sockets because of the potential loading, before anyone shouts it has nothing to do with being directly next to the machines, we are only talking about the loading
Cheers

That's 2 quite different questions .....

1. what regulations - certainly not BS 7671?
2. good practice maybe ?

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Evening all,
Somebody has said to me that if you put a double socket in a base unit for a washing machine and tumble dryer this is against regulations and that it should be 2 single sockets because of the potential loading, before anyone shouts it has nothing to do with being directly next to the machines, we are only talking about the loading
Cheers

The British Standard for both single and double sockets requires them to be rated at 20A.
Some manufacturer’s rate their double sockets at 26A.
However if we go by the standards, connecting two appliances with a combined load greater than 20A would be deemed as overloading the double socket.

 

[Pete999]

Evening all,
Somebody has said to me that if you put a double socket in a base unit for a washing machine and tumble dryer this is against regulations and that it should be 2 single sockets because of the potential loading, before anyone shouts it has nothing to do with being directly next to the machines, we are only talking about the loading
Cheers

Deleted, don't know what to say

 

[buzzlightyear]

Deleted, don't know what to say

o well.

 

[Pete999]

o well.

Yes Mate I could be accused of Trolling if I went any further with this.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Yes Mate I could be accused of Trolling if I went any further with this.

Essex has not posted in the thread, has he?

 

[buzzlightyear]

Yes Mate I could be accused of Trolling if I went any further with this

not you Pete baby you must be the only upstand person in the community ,behind me .

 

[Pete999]

not you Pete baby you must be the only upstand person in the community ,behind me .

Well I did get accused this afternoon, so we ain't immune to criticism, even you with your bad spelling

 

[Risteard]

The British Standard for both single and double sockets requires them to be rated at 20A.
Some manufacturer’s rate their double sockets at 26A.
However if we go by the standards, connecting two appliances with a combined load greater than 20A would be deemed as overloading the double socket.

A single socket outlet is only rated to 13A (not 20A). A double socket outlet is rated for 20A (with 14A and 6A connected through it for an hour).

 

[Deleted member 26818]

A single socket outlet is only rated to 13A (not 20A). A double socket outlet is rated for 20A (with 14A and 6A connected through it for an hour).

Oh dear.
If that were the case, then we would not be able to use single sockets on standard RFCs.

 

[Risteard]

Oh dear.
If that were the case, then we would not be able to use single sockets on standard RFCs.

No, because the circuit load doesn't run through the socket outlet.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

No, because the circuit load doesn't run through the socket outlet.

Read up on the requirements in BS7671 for a standard RFC on a 30/32A OCPD.

 

[Risteard]

Read up on the requirements in BS7671 for a standard RFC on a 30/32A OCPD.

That refers to the cable rating...

 

[mossep]

A single socket outlet is only rated to 13A (not 20A). A double socket outlet is rated for 20A (with 14A and 6A connected through it for an hour).

Agreed, although I thought it was 13A + 7A

 

[Risteard]

Agreed, although I thought it was 13A + 7A

No - I think the idea behind 14A is that it is a moderate overload.

 

[mossep]

A single socket outlet is only rated to 13A (not 20A). A double socket outlet is rated for 20A (with 14A and 6A connected through it for an hour).

Agreed, although I thought it was 13A + 7A

No - I think the idea behind 14A is that it is a moderate overload.

Correct, just checked

BS1363-2:1995 requires for double socket outlets that both socket outlets have loads applied via test plugs, 1 test plug having a load of 14 amps whilst the other has a load of 6 amps, making a total load of 20 amps on the cable supplying the double socket outlet. The double socket outlet is then subjected to this loading for a minimum continuous period of 4 hours or longer until stability is reached with a maximum duration of 8 hours (stability being taken as less than 1 degC rise within 1 h). The test is passed if neither the terminals / terminations, nor the accessible external surface, increase in temperature by more than 52 degC.

 

[Midwest]

Bet Lap don't do that test.

 

[DPG]

Definitely some confusion over socket ratings! As someone said above, the whole ring circuit load is NOT passing through the single 13A socket outlet - the ingoing and outgoing cables are merely connected together in the terminals.

 

[Lucien Nunes]

Getting back to the original point. It is bad practice to design an installation in which any component is operated above its rating. If we know that a particular double socket outlet is rated for 20A total shared between the two outlets, and we install it for the specific purpose of two appliances that we know are likely to total more than 20A for a duration in the same order as the thermal time constant of the socket parts, then that has to be bad design. In practice it is so unlikely to cause a problem, that we can probably discount it. And if we didn't know the total load, we wouldn't have asked the question in the first place.

Being pragmatic, with typical workmanship these days the fewer points the better, as the connections to the circuit cables are likely to be a weaker link than the copper busbars inside the accessories.

 

[Dave OCD]

Bet Lap don't do that test.

I happen to know their standard test - 2 x 40w table lamps are run for 47 seconds, if nothing melts it's a pass.

 

[Baddegg]

I happen to know their standard test - 2 x 40w table lamps are run for 47 seconds, if nothing melts it's a pass.

Think you missed the decimal point there Dave....4.7 seconds ,I believe 47 to be a bit vigorous for lap!

 

[snipersmith87]

I had same situation recently where customer wanted power for washer and dryer. She stated she used them regularly at same time. I put in dedicated 32amp circuit feeding dual pattress with 2 x 1g sockets for the exact reason of 20amp rating on a 2g socket. Always better to side with caution.

 

[Rpa07]

. . . . and you cannot, if intending to, allow separate DP isolation with a double outlet but you can with a dual pattress and switched or unswitched single outlets.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

. . . . and you cannot, if intending to, allow separate DP isolation with a double outlet but you can with a dual pattress and switched or unswitched single outlets.

My understanding, is that the British Standard requires DP switching.

 

[Risteard]

My understanding, is that the British Standard requires DP switching.

The British Standard for what requires double pole switching for what?

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Socket-outlets.

 

[Risteard]

Socket-outlets.

Single pole switched socket outlets are readily available, so I would kindly suggest that your statement simply isn't true.

 

[Rpa07]

Probably more single pole switching than double pole on socket outlets. You have to determine to get DP when choosing because either is available.
@spinlondon I was referring to above counter 20a DP isolation with 2 feeds to a dual pattress in order to isolate separately which cannot be done with one feed to a double outlet.