Are some PV panels better than others?

[moggy1968]

yes, they are a replacement for the standard inverter. I am fitting our first set next week. I have had doubts about microinverters because if they need changing they are behind the panels which will be a right pain but these are coming with a 20 year warranty.

 

[Gary K]

Moggy I was looking at that M125 Enphase Microinverter. Let me see if I understand this right. This uses a separate Microinverter for each installed solar panel. Are these a replacement for the usual inverter fitted in the loft or do they work along with it? Are there any problems with them being exposed to the elements?

Not 100% but i believe these are fitted in the loft space to make swapping out faulty units easy.

 

[moggy1968]

no, they fit behind the panels, clipped to the rails.

 

[SRE]

Just to add further to the confusion - most Canadian Solar panels are made in China, although it is a Canadian company It's a minefield out there!

 

[Gozoman]

Getting to the point where I might just drop the whole idea as I wouldn't know what was being installed!

 

[Gary K]

no, they fit behind the panels, clipped to the rails.

I stand corrected.

 

[jason121]

I think steca do a micro inverter that can go in the roof space

 

[SolarCity]

I could run a search on the web and find these great write-ups about German panels or French panels or Swiss panels or whatever but where would that get me? I thought that people who were installing them for a living and had been doing so for years would be able to give an honest opinion of what to go for. I have no doubt there are quality products coming out of China but practically every fake product in this country was made in China. If you were fitting wall sockets in a house would you go for a trusted make like MK or would you be happy fitting MK fakes made in China which have been shown to catch fire under load? As an electrician you would probably be able to spot the difference but they would look the same to me. I can't see me going with the Chinese manufactured Samil Inverter and Chinese manufactured Linuo solar panels because I just wouldn't trust them. And when the panels are only rated at 11.8% efficiency they wouldn't be worth it anyway.

Unless you go for Sanyo or SunPower then you're barking up the wrong tree when it comes to efficiency.

You have a small roof but it is unlikely that you'll fit more panels by going for a panel with higher efficiency unless you pay the extra.

I do know what I'm talking about and you can trust my advice but if you can't get past your sinophobia then you'll just end up paying extra. That's your choice and I suppose it will at least give you peace of mind.

 

[Gozoman]

I'm accepting the fact now that I may end up with Chinese made panels on the roof even if they state they are German or Canadian. What I certainly won't have is some Chinese made fire trap in my loft, so the Inverter will be a lot better quality probably than the panels. Sinophobia unfortunately is not as widespread as it should be.

 

[jason121]

Fronius inverters come witha 10 year warranty (Austrian) in my opinion beats the pants of SMA if your not bothered about the bluetooth wireless that comes with the SMA

 

[Gozoman]

Heard a lot about this bluetooth wireless on the SMA's. What does it actually do?

 

[moggy1968]

yep, we've had good results with fronius, although a little noisy, but depending on where you mount it may not be a problem.

one of our 4kW systems with a fronius inverter prodeced 4000kW last year (Aug to Aug) which seems pretty good!

 

[jason121]

Connects Wireless monitor (sunny beam) on coffee table which is extra

 

[Vegelen]

Heard a lot about this bluetooth wireless on the SMA's. What does it actually do?

Allows bluetooth enabled devices to talk to the inverter & extract generation data using bluetooth wireless protocol.
Insert a USB Bluetooth stick into your PC, if your PC motherboard doesnt have bluetooth enabled & embedded on it.

 

[SRE]

If you're loft is so small that you can only get 1.8kwp of panels then you shouldn't be having your inverter in the loft it's too small, it'll be dusty and get warm in the Summer making it work much harder. Try garage or utility??

 

[jason121]

Allows bluetooth enabled devices to talk to the inverter & extract generation data using bluetooth wireless protocol.
Insert a USB Bluetooth stick into your PC, if your PC motherboard doesnt have bluetooth enabled & embedded on it.

I have never got that to work on my PC. Am I missing something ??

 

[Vegelen]

Using the software sma-bluetooth, you can talk to a SMA TL inverter using a Linux PC &
Class 1 USB Wireless card.

SMA-Bluetooth

sma-bluetooth - SMA Inverter Bluetooth Connection for linux - Google Project Hosting

Linux Command Line Commands:

cd sma-bluetooth-0.18

.smatool --test

Data presented in the following format:

Date Time Total Generation KWh Current Power Inverter Data

01/3/2012 1700 total=2710.526 Kwh current=372 Watts togo=0 i=59 crc=0

:45:

 

[Rseelectrical]

Solarworld are good quality high performing panels proven in independent tests German quality they have been making solar panels for nearly 30years and plus sorted you never receive a panel which performs at less than the rating of the panel.... Meaning you could get a 254w panel for the price of a 250w as it would be classed as 250W..........

 

[SRE]

Still peanuts on that size roof - may as well go cheap Chinese - more cost effective. Try Yingli Panda 270w - same size as a 250w panel and a reasonable price.

 

[moggy1968]

You can download the SMA software from SMA Australia and then monitor your system on any bluetooth equiped device, It's free. we now advise people of this rather than flogging them a sunnybeam.

Yingli are good, I fitted them on my demo system and my mates house and they are performing very well. The demo system is a 1.8kW. I don't entirely agree with SRE. even a 1.8-2.0kw system will give you useful savings and a FiTs payment, it's still well worthwhile. Maximmise the output of what you have available (maybe by using 270 panels as he suggests), microinverters, or top of the range panels like panasonic IF, as I suggested before, it means you can get more panels on the roof. IF it doesn't it's probably not worth the cost.

A good quality inverter like SMA will be fine in your loft if you have nowhere more suitable.

 

[SRE]

Sorry I wasn't entirely clear - what I meant was 5w extra for Sunpower (ie 250 on a 245 panel) wouldn't make much difference on such a small system especially when you can buy Yingli 270w. I didn't mean that the 1.8kwp wasn't worth it

 

[moggy1968]

sorry, gotcha now:wink_smile:

 

[Worcester]

You can download the SMA software from SMA Australia and then monitor your system on any bluetooth equiped device, It's free. we now advise people of this rather than flogging them a sunnybeam.

@moggy1968 - can you post the link please, I can only find the usual SMA offering there. (iPhone / Android without webbox)

 

[Vegelen]

SMA Software:

http://www.sma-australia.com.au/en_AU/products/software.html

Sunny Explorer:

http://www.sma-australia.com.au/en_AU/products/software/sunny-explorer.html

 

[Worcester]

@Vegelen - don't see anything special there - that's all available on the EU/UK site, and don't see a bluetooth app for my iphone or android withput using sunny portal and a webbox which is what Moggy was suggesting....

"on any bluetooth equiped device"

 

[Gavin A]

@Vegelen - don't see anything special there - that's all available on the EU/UK site, and don't see a bluetooth app for my iphone or android withput using sunny portal and a webbox which is what Moggy was suggesting....

"on any bluetooth equiped device"

think there is one for the iphone on the apple store, but I've not used it as I break fancy phones so aren't allowed one.

 

[wstevew]

Ahem.. shameless plug

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.felixthepuddytat.SMASolarLog&hl=en

 

[moggy1968]

Sorry, I wasn't clear, I was refering to the PC software. As above there are phone apps out there but I haven't used them.

 

[pwboston]

The PC software which is free is very good, we usually set this up for customers before we leave site.

 

[Worcester]

Thanks moggy, I got confuddled

There are also free scripts that will allow you to link via bluetooth live to pvoutput.org (we do it and have shown it to some of our clients how do it too)

I have the SMA iphone app for sunny portal too, it's OK

Wstevew's app is a good one for android.

Haven't (yet) found a straight bluetooth iphone app to replace sunny explorer on the pc, though since linking up to pvoutput.org very rarely use sunny explorer for monitoring purposes.

 

[wstevew]

I doubt a iOS application with Bluetooth connectivity will happen due to apple not supporting the required Bluetooth profile.

Using a cheap android, a PC, or if technical enough an arduino or Pi as a logger and the pvoutput application would be the current iOS solution.

 

[Worcester]

Got a few Pi's here - one running the weather station, one running our energy logging, another as an xmbc server for the TV... seeing as it runs linux might see if tanyones cracked the bluetooth interface and logging to pvoutput yet, that way I could free up the pc

 

[Gozoman]

Just though I'd give an update on where things are at the moment. I had a visit from PowerNI who are the main electricity supplier here in N. Ireland and who also install solar PV systems. They seem to be a lot better already than the last company I was dealing with but I wanted to run the proposed system by the experts. Bear in mind I haven't got the full details yet. First of all they use Dimplex 250Wp panels so no problem with Chinese made stuff as these are made right here in N.Ireland. They seem a lot better than the other firms offering having a module efficiency of 14.75% and come with a 12 year guarantee. Anyone used these and have any feedback on them? On the inverter side again no Chinese stuff as they use the Power-One Aurora range or if the customer prefers SMA Sunnyboy. I don't need to ask about the SMA inverters as I have already been told that they are the best available, but what about the Power-One Aurora, are they any good? I have also told the guy to consider sourcing a Schuco Sunnyboy to keep the price down a bit.

They have also suggested fitting an Eco-Eye real time electricity monitor which you can see here. Eco-Eye Products and Online Store
Any one got any experience of these? Are they a good idea? I thought the SMA had some sort of bluetooth link which did the same thing so is this better?

As before any feedback appreciated. As I said earlier I haven't had the quote in yet but I would say given the fact that it appears to be a better system it will also be a more expensive system!

 

[Gavin A]

Are you sure that Dimplex actually manufacture the panels themselves? I can't find any evidence that they're UK manufactured, so I'd suspect they're just rebadging imported panels. Not that there's necessarily anything wrong with this, as long as they're not being sold as UK manufactured if they aren't.

 

[Gozoman]

Good question Gavin. I was told they were made in Craigavon but the only thing I can find there is a distribution site. No doubt once again they are being brought in from China and rebadged. I've emailed them to ask what make the panels are and where they are made.

 

[Worcester]

They have also suggested fitting an Eco-Eye real time electricity monitor which you can see here. Eco-Eye Products and Online Store
Any one got any experience of these? Are they a good idea? I thought the SMA had some sort of bluetooth link which did the same thing so is this better?

See here: http://www.electriciansforums.net/p...-immersun-type-devices-work-3.html#post739417
and here: http://www.electriciansforums.net/p...forum/72888-electricity-meter.html#post722824

 

[Gozoman]

Yeah I was looking at the feedback on Amazon from folks who had bought them and they mostly seem to be happy with them.