Bodge job by NIC registered company , Help please

[lee0069]

Hi I really could use some advive

There is a bin store near my building and the work has been done by an NICEIC company but i have made complaints to the coucil and got no where , compained twice to the company that did this work in the past 2 months and nothing has been done, i have also tried to phone the NICEIC but they say only the person who is ordering / the cient can complain.

I have listed the problems with it bellow and added some images

Conduit not continuous
Conduit not earthed
Conduit not secure
Conduit is rusting

In this state it should have been given additional protection by a 30ma RCD , in its current state there is a potential risk of electric shock if the conduit is pulled.

Whats my next move , i feel like iam banging my head against a brick wall.

 

[uksparks]

Lee0069, tell me about you, are you an Electrician?

 

[lee0069]

Yes i have done my City and guilds 2330 level2 have 17th edition and a member of a scam provider

 

[uksparks]

Hi,

The issue of it being not continuous, if I had done it it would be continuous, but maybe they had their reasons...

The fact its not secure and rusting, thats just poor workman ship, as for the rust, maybe it was a badly galvanized section..

If not RCD protected, then you would think it would need bonding really wouldnt you.

 

[Deleted member 72666]

They should of at the very least used a galv. adaptable box or a running coupling on the other side of that door frame to keep it continuous.

 

[lee0069]

Yea thats my point , there is no RCD whats so ever , they have done the same kind of thing to 3 other bin stores down my road as well, it feels like this whole part-p is a joke , if i done some thing like this i would not be able to sleep at night.

 

[a1guvner]

The possible rust does look like the residue of cutting grease to me............

 

[uksparks]

The possible rust does look like the residue of cutting grease to me............

Could be yes, it could be rust, but not 100% sure without seing it.

 

[a1guvner]

Could be yes, it could be rust, but not 100% sure without seing it.

Thought it could be by the coupler going on to the light

 

[lee0069]

Well my main worry is that if some one pulled on that conduit the whole dam thing would become live and as i have said there is no RCD, just dont know what to do next.

 

[a1guvner]

Well my main worry is that if some one pulled on that conduit the whole dam thing would become live and as i have said there is no RCD, just dont know what to do next.

Another possible route could be the HSE as its a public place, they would have a bit more clout than you............

 

[lee0069]

Thanks... did not think of that

 

[Knobhead]

In this state it should have been given additional protection by a 30ma RCD , in its current state there is a potential risk of electric shock if the conduit is pulled.

Whats my next move , i feel like iam banging my head against a brick wall.

Put your Marigolds on and give the conduit a good yank. That should sort it out

 

[Geordie Spark]

Put your Marigolds on and give the conduit a good yank. That should sort it out

That's more like it!!

We can always rely on Wor Tony to come up with a pragmatic solution to any problem!

I'm sure he must have some Geordie blood sloshing around in his arteries along with the alcohol

 

[telectrix]

in a bin park. what you might call a rubbish installation.

 

[davesparks]

Why does it need an RCD?

 

[Plonker 3]

Why does it need an RCD?

Because thats all DIs install as it there way of making everything uber safe without actually knowing what they are doing alot of the time.

 

[amlu]

couple of screws, wall plugs, conduit clips should do the job securing it. otherwise wait when its get knocked properly by a moving bin.

 

[Geordie Spark]

in a bin park. what you might call a rubbish installation.

We did not wish to hear that.

Kindly leave the stage!

Ye've been Paid Off bonny lad ...... There's nee need f'ye t' dey yer second set .. noo gerroot!!!

(Standard WM Clubs Concert Chairman's phrase)

 

[infinity]

Regardless if the conduit continuity it wouldn't require rcd protection of its surface mounted, assuming it's not for sockets, and in theory it doesn't have to be continuous, the T&E has it's own mechanical protection , although it looks rough

 

[Knobhead]

Why does it need an RCD?

Good question, answers on a postcard please.

Because that's all DI's install, it's their way of making everything "safe" without knowing why or what they are doing.

I'll agree with Dillb now I've corrected his post.

 

[lee0069]

Regulation 411.4.2
Each exposed conductive part of the installation shall be connected by a protective conductor to the main earthing of the installation, which shall be connected to the earthed point of the power supply system.

Regulation 522.6.6 (iii)

The cable must be enclosed in earthed trunking or ducting
as specified in 522.6.6.(iii)

If the above where done then yes it would not require an RCD

 

[davesparks]

It doesn't need an RCD as it is now, it just needs fixing!

An RCD does not negate the need for steel conduit to be earthed or for it to be properly constructed.

An RCD is not a magical device that excuses all bad workmanship!

 

[davesparks]

Ok I can't even find 522.6.6 in my regs book, the nearest thing is 522.6.100 onwards which variously contain those words. But they all specifically relate to concealed cables, not surface conduit work.

 

[lee0069]

Wel maybe you would like to read this: http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rc...zbQHBXjklYkANBA&bvm=bv.76477589,d.ZGU&cad=rja
All my point is is that the conduit has to be earthed

 

[Silly Sausage]

What's occurring in the 2nd picture where the tube is cut off?
Where are the cables going?

522.6.6.200 says it should be coloured in brick pattern paint. Fail!

 

[davesparks]

Wel maybe you would like to read this: http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rc...zbQHBXjklYkANBA&bvm=bv.76477589,d.ZGU&cad=rja
All my point is is that the conduit has to be earthed

That link is irrelevant as it is only concerned with buried cables, not surface installations.


You are probably right that it should be earthed, but an RCD is not an alternative so fitting one will achieve nothing, so again why do you think it should have an RCD fitted?

I say probably as it is obviously T&E inside the conduit, which is a wiring system in its own right, so it is possible that there could be some debate from some quarters as to whether it needs earthing or bonding or neither.

Also as T&E is suitable for use without additional mechanical protection there is no requirement for the conduit to pass through the doorframe.

 

[snowhead]

Ignoring whether an RCD is required or not;

How has the O.P established there is no RCD fitted, when it's not in His/Her premises?

 

[lee0069]

Yes but as the conduit is insecure and the cable could be pulled out if the light fitting , and the line condutor could be toching the unearthed conduit .Am i the only one who can see some one getting an electric shock?

And yes i agree if the conduit was secure and continious then there is no need for an RCD , but the conduit has never been earthed or mechanicly or electricy continious.

 

[Guest77]

[h=2]Help please[/h]
whats the problem Lee?

 

[davesparks]

Yes but as the conduit is insecure and the cable could be pulled out if the light fitting , and the line condutor could be toching the unearthed conduit .Am i the only one who can see some one getting an electric shock?

And yes i agree if the conduit was secure and continious then there is no need for an RCD , but the conduit has never been earthed or mechanicly or electricy continious.

There is no need for rcd with the conduit being insecure, what it needs is the conduit to be secured properly!

How do you know for certain that the conduit is not earthed? Have you opened the light fitting to check that there isn't a banjo in there or an earthing nut?

 

[lee0069]

As i have said its not earthed , there is a around 7MΩ resistance from both parts of the conduit to the main eathing terminal, i have not taken the light fitting apart but can access there CU.

 

[snowhead]

As the O.P has exhausted all reasonable courses of action and feels the installation is a possible death trap then there appears to be only action left, disconnect said circuit.

That'll get someone's attention.

Knowingly leaving it in it's current state might later be deemed to have been negligent, especially for someone with appropriate technical knowledge.

 

[davesparks]

So the question is whether it would want earthing or bonding then?
If bonding then it obviously won't be required as it is above the magic number, but if it would be earthing then it will need it.

What exactly is 'around 7Mohm'? That's hardly a specific measured value is it?

I would say that since it is containing T&E rather than singles it doesn't require earthing strictly speaking, in the same way that cable tray doesn't specifically require earthing if it is carrying sheathed cables. Have a read of Guidance note 8 and see what it has to say about it.

 

[lee0069]

Yes but there is another issue , that circuit feeds the lights for the stairs and last thing i would also want to see is people falling down them where they cant see

 

[Silly Sausage]

Find out who ordered the work, tell them your concerns, and get them to report it to the NICEIC, as in your OP.
Not that the NICEIC will do F$%& All about it.

I would say, follow Tony's advice earlier up thread, but trouble is, the original installer will get called back to fix it and get paid even more money!!!

It's :mad2: time.

 

[davesparks]

As the O.P has exhausted all reasonable courses of action and feels the installation is a possible death trap then there appears to be only action left, disconnect said circuit.

That'll get someone's attention.

Knowingly leaving it in it's current state might later be deemed to have been negligent, especially for someone with appropriate technical knowledge.

If the owner of the installation hasn't given permission to disconnect it the if he does he could be prosecuted for criminal damage.

 

[infinity]

If it's over 29000 ohms it's not even classed as an extraneous part! It's practically seperate from the wiring system

 

[snowhead]

If the owner of the installation hasn't given permission to disconnect it the if he does he could be prosecuted for criminal damage.

It wasn't an entirely serious post, but as you brought it up.
Disconnecting wouldn't be causing damage, might be unlawfully interfering, but with reasonable grounds in the O.P's opinion.
He's already been at the C.U and main earth terminal..

 

[davesparks]

It is an act of vandalism!

 

[shanky887614]

Yes but there is another issue , that circuit feeds the lights for the stairs and last thing i would also want to see is people falling down them where they cant see

then they should have emergency fittings, it will be no different to if there is a power failure

 

[ian.settle1]

Yes but there is another issue , that circuit feeds the lights for the stairs and last thing i would also want to see is people falling down them where they cant see

Then shouldn't get that ****ed to fall down the stairs then should they?

 

[ayjay]

op who installed that abortion? take ur pics
pop along to their office and tell the ----pot that runs this circus he is a wan-er

 

[Silly Sausage]

op who installed that abortion? take ur pics
pop along to their office and tell the ----pot that runs this circus he is a wan-er

Haven't you twigged yet AJ, we haven't got a Stasi we can report this stuff to, to get them 'disappeared' somewhere in the woods.

 

[ayjay]

all i can say is that that installation was probably done by a 15 year old on £2-oo an hour work experience
a total rubbish installation
its got sweet f/a to do with the russian stazi

 

[Knobhead]

Find out who ordered the work, tell them your concerns, and get them to report it to the NICEIC, as in your OP.
Not that the NICEIC will do F$%& All about it.

It's :mad2: time.

The second sensible suggestion.

Mine came first.

The OP obviously can’t get the idea in his head, it’s not his problem therefore the NIC-EIC will just ignore him.
The landlord will probably tell him to mind his own business.

All this BS and waffle for nothing.

 

[snowhead]

It is an act of vandalism!

That's an appropriate description of the installation

 

[Engineer54]

Nobody's interested, and won't be until someone is injured, maimed or killed. Then and only then, will all the so-called interested parties be interested, but now it'll be down to damage limitation and where or rather who they can throw any or all of their responsibilities at, in the form of anything sticky....


Anyone getting the message yet?? lol!!

 

[trev]

Haven't you twigged yet AJ, we haven't got a Stasi we can report this stuff to, to get them 'disappeared' somewhere in the woods.

We will have if the home secretary gets her way.

 

[trev]

its got sweet f/a to do with the russian stazi

The Stasi weren't Russian although they did have very close ties to the KGB.