Commercial property

[Manfredmann]

Hi everyone, I've just been asked to do some basic fault finding on a lighting circuit in a commercial property, I've been working as a domestic spark with Elecsa for nearly 8 years and have always turned down commercial work that isn't covered by the scope of part p. Am I actually allowed to carry out basic work like this? And if I'm not, what do I need to do to qualify for a scheme that does cover it?

I realise that domestic work and industrial/commercial are very different, but its not like I want to rewire Hinkley or anything, just sort out a lighting circuit in a shop!
I look forward to your responses!

 

[telectrix]

the key word is competent. if you are, then go ahead. thing to watch out for is where 3 phase is installed. you may get 2 phases feeding into a switch or light fitting. also, make sure your PL insurance covers 3 phase. a lot of policies don't. you will find that a lot of the time, if containment systems are used, singles, then the neutrals will go direct to the light/s and the lives to switch then light/s.

 

[Richard Burns]

You can carry out the work, you just need to be aware that you may need sufficient insurance to appropriately cover you if things go wrong and there is a lot more health and safety and legislative compliance required in commercial and industrial work.

Remember that installation methods and practices can be very different from a domestic situation and you need to be able to understand these methods and how to deal with them.

For the work you are considering, lighting in a shop, I would probably only be concerned about the scale of the installation and the available accessibility to work on the system. Depending on the size of the shop they may well require you to work out of hours.

 

[loop3]

Also be aware of conductor sizing. Large / long circuits may well have a greater csa. If you go for it check your insurance as teletrix mentioned, and be sure to identify as circuit components. Relays timers sensors etc

 

[Manfredmann]

Thanks guys, will look to increase my cover, the shop is well within my comfort zone, single phase and uncomplicated!

 

[GLENNSPARK]

oh dear...here we go again....
sorry manfred..but..
as others have already pointed out.....competance n all that....
if this is your scheme provider (scam) tellin you this....well its a public forum so i cant repeat what i`d tell em....
you do whatever you feel comfortable with......thats the key.....
if you can test...then go for it
if you can faultfind...then go for it
if you can install...then go for it
never mind what the scams tell you...

 

[Manfredmann]

Now you mention it Glennspark, I've never been told I can't do work on commercial property, but I must admit that I assumed that was the case. I've been quite happy sticking to domestic work, but hate the idea of turning down work that is easily within my skill set! I have 2391 so perhaps I should look to go full scope, but if I'm not regularly working on industrial/commercial property is there any point?

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Now you mention it Glennspark, I've never been told I can't do work on commercial property, but I must admit that I assumed that was the case. I've been quite happy sticking to domestic work, but hate the idea of turning down work that is easily within my skill set! I have 2391 so perhaps I should look to go full scope, but if I'm not regularly working on industrial/commercial property is there any point?

manfred...you do whatever you feel comfortable with...
not what a scam tells you ..you can or cant do (cheek)
not what others think you should (or shouldn`t) be doing
and certainly not through fear or `well i`m not sure` or stuff like that....

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Now you mention it Glennspark, I've never been told I can't do work on commercial property, but I must admit that I assumed that was the case. I've been quite happy sticking to domestic work, but hate the idea of turning down work that is easily within my skill set! I have 2391 so perhaps I should look to go full scope, but if I'm not regularly working on industrial/commercial property is there any point?

and whats `full scope`?
thats what you`v got now...isnt it?....
you mention your with elecsa....so limited (boiler fitters n stuff)...or full (installs & notification)
so whats industrial & commercial work got to do with elecsa...or any of the others?...
well i`ll tell you what its got to do with `em:
sod all....thats what!!...part p (limited or full) is aimed at the domestic works only....
if you get some industrial and/or commercial work...and you think its within your own scope of competance.....
then quote for it....
get the work...
get it done...
get paid!!..lol...

 

[cobrauk]

Lets face it guys there are spark's out there who spent their whole apprenticeship doing nothing but one thing with no experience of anything like the real world has to offer and only learned off one guy or guys who wasn't very good at what he did and still passed all their exams and came out fully qualified electricians , so when it comes to being able to do everything with competence is very hard for them, much better for them to ask then to try and muddle through has always been my way.

I have been in the game for well over 40 years and am still learning things I have not come across before, But I have always been blessed in being able to think things trough and get it sorted.

I always remember one time when we got a call to attend to a site and help out some gas engineers, I arrived to find 4 of their top fully trained engineers in the electrical fault finding side as well as the gas side, including their top man from the office, they has spent the whole day trying to figure out why their bit of kit wouldn't work, they had all the test gear they had proven all the lives where Ok and fuses were Ok etc etc, but I was there 5 mins and found that the DP switch isolator they were using was not allowing the neutral through a faulty contact simple, Moral to this story sort the simple things first and have a proper 2 wire mains tester not a touch type

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Lets face it guys there are spark's out there who spent their whole apprenticeship doing nothing but one thing with no experience of anything like the real world has to offer and only learned off one guy or guys who wasn't very good at what he did and still passed all their exams and came out fully qualified electricians , so when it comes to being able to do everything with competence is very hard for them, much better for them to ask then to try and muddle through has always been my way.

I have been in the game for well over 40 years and am still learning things I have not come across before, But I have always been blessed in being able to think things trough and get it sorted.

I always remember one time when we got a call to attend to a site and help out some gas engineers, I arrived to find 4 of their top fully trained engineers in the electrical fault finding side as well as the gas side, including their top man from the office, they has spent the whole day trying to figure out why their bit of kit wouldn't work, they had all the test gear they had proven all the lives where Ok and fuses were Ok etc etc, but I was there 5 mins and found that the DP switch isolator they were using was not allowing the neutral through a faulty contact simple, Moral to this story sort the simple things first and have a proper 2 wire mains tester not a touch type

christ...they wern`t goin round with a Neon screwdriver were they?..lol...

 

[cobrauk]

Yes they were lol

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Yes they were lol

lol....
these were `engineers` were they?..lol...
best thing to do with these `neon testers`...is to launch em as far as you can quickly....wherever you find em...lol...

 

[HandySparks]

christ...they wern`t goin round with a Neon screwdriver were they?..lol...

Hmm. I could have found this fault, even with just a neon screwdriver; a prod onto the neutral terminal on the load side of the switch would have found it.

Like a lot of things in life, it's not the price of the tool that matters, it's knowing where to stick it for best results.