DIY "electrician". Is he breaking the law?

[Zdb]

Ok guys so I have a friend of a friend who has zero electrical qualifications. He's setup his own lighting business doing LED conversions. He mainly swaps fluorescent light fittings for LED panels and sometimes adds extra fittings too. He's done so in offices, factories, gyms and he's soon going to be working in schools. He hasn't got any test instruments and doesn't get any Zs values for any of the circuits that he's worked on and therefore doesn't produce any sort of certification.

My question is, is he breaking the law?

I find it crazy as the company I work for requires a minor works certificate every time I replace a socket outlet or a light switch.

 

[Wilko]

I'll leave the legal bits to someone else.
On the insurance side, they operate in a way to quantify and reduce their risks. So I'm fairly sure that his insurance company will have assumed he is competent to do the work and so there may be issues if there was ever a claim. Likewise, I'm fairly sure the building owner's insurance would assume the owner would only engage a competent person to do electrical work and so they may not honour a future related claim. Bit like letting someone drive your car when you know they can't drive or couldn't be bothered to ask if they had a licence perhaps ?

 

[Pete999]

Does he belong to nay of the CP Schemes?

 

[Zdb]

Nope

 

[Octopus]

I'm surprised that none of his clients have asked about certificates .... and hope he has decent PL ins...

 

[Richard Burns]

It would be hard to prove he was breaking the law.
The building regulations require a good standard of workmanship and not to lower the standards of an existing building.
The lack of certification does not sound like good workmanship, but he might be working neatly and safely, though how he would demonstrate this is dubious.
The health and safety at work act would require him not to expose others or himself to hazards, again difficult to prove he wasn't but likely that he is.

Once something goes wrong then it will be proved (or not) he was breaking the law but not until then unfortunately.

 

[westward10]

By doing the work he is not breaking any laws. Does anyone of his work contravene the E&WR 1989 well that may come to light should some unfortunate soul fall foul of poor workmanship then he may well end up in a court of law. Would be interesting to see any contracts, if any for these works.

 

[Pete999]

Nope

As others have said I hope he has good insurance, I wonder who in the School you mentioned employed him, as it would seems he didn't do his research very thoroughly. Have a word.

 

[Pete999]

By doing the work he is not breaking any laws. Does anyone of his work contravene the E&WR 1989 well that may come to light should some unfortunate soul fall foul of poor workmanship then he may well end up in a court of law. Would be interesting to see any contracts, if any for these works.

Nah Westy someones passing the brown envelope around imo

 

[polo1]

It's highly unlikely that he'll have appropriate insurance cover if he's been honest in setting up a policy; and even if he has "cover" it's likely not to cover the electrical work he's doing in the event of a claim. If say he works on a Class 1 fitting where the cpc is floating, and subsequently someone suffers a shock from the fitting, questions are going to be asked of the last person to work on the fitting...i.e. him!

 

[ipf]

Not an unusual story, these days. The profession is going to pot.

It goes on in domestics and to a growing extent in commercial and industrial but, when it comes schools, it really is getting stupid.

 

[PEG]

This current lack of questioning,regarding a person's qualifications and competence,has sure helped my new mobile Gynaecology business,though...

 

[HandySparks]

This current lack of questioning,regarding a person's qualifications and competence,has sure helped my new mobile Gynaecology business,though...

Is that a 'while you wait' service?

 

[PEG]

I do while-you-wait,at work,and my newest addition,where you send the parts requiring inspection,in a jiffy bag. Finally,at work,i can feel a right ----

 

[DPG]

Like post #12.

 

[Rosco]

This current lack of questioning,regarding a person's qualifications and competence,has sure helped my new mobile Gynaecology business,though...

Bigs thumbs up Sorry no like button

 

[Mumfi]

Ok guys so I have a friend of a friend who has zero electrical qualifications. He's setup his own lighting business doing LED conversions. He mainly swaps fluorescent light fittings for LED panels and sometimes adds extra fittings too. He's done so in offices, factories, gyms and he's soon going to be working in schools. He hasn't got any test instruments and doesn't get any Zs values for any of the circuits that he's worked on and therefore doesn't produce any sort of certification.

My question is, is he breaking the law?

I find it crazy as the company I work for requires a minor works certificate every time I replace a socket outlet or a light switch.

Good luck to him if he can get someone to pay him to do the work why not go for it

 

[Mumfi]

That's the problem with this trade too many people trying to sound clever regarding what people can and cant do. if he's willing to put in the effort good luck to him

 

[Des 56]

That's the problem with this trade too many people trying to sound clever regarding what people can and cant do. if he's willing to put in the effort good luck to him

I can't disagree with the sentiment,however, we should bare in mind,electricians often have the safety of others in their hands, competence may be more important in our trade than in most others and where there is doubt there may follow tragedy

 

[Mumfi]

Sorry have to disagree with some of that, many jobs have the safety of other in their hands..the electrical trade is no different than a bricklayer or a carpenter they all need to do their work to a more or less reasonable standard so it doesn't fall down and clobber someone. The difference seems to be that for some misconceived reason the sparks seem to require some sort of heavy policing

 

[PEG]

Sorry have to disagree with some of that, many jobs have the safety of other in their hands..the electrical trade is no different than a bricklayer or a carpenter they all need to do their work to a more or less reasonable standard so it doesn't fall down and clobber someone. The difference seems to be that for some misconceived reason the sparks seem to require some sort of heavy policing[/QUOTE]

This is,and always was,due to that inevitable driver, of money. Any war,legislation,onerous sentencing,or direct government involvement,is only generated by one thing,cost.

The technical trades,which were usually restricted by the nature of their required higher academic input,were generally at the higher end of the pay scale. This meant that the people benefitting,whether the employed or the employers,had sufficient "fat",to be skimmed off,in the name of safety or regulation.

There are no governing bodies,schemes or regulation,for leaflet droppers or car washers. No disrespect intended.

There are several reasons to believe that the scheme system,was more related to tax gathering,as any safety concerns,and nothing that has happened since it's inception,has convinced me otherwise.

Indeed,a great many topics covered on this forum,regarding new entrants to the domestic job,and recently completed work,of a sub-standard,would suggest a distinct lack of "heavy policing",or any redress or monitoring whatsoever.

It is,what it is...and we groove on

 

[Pete999]

Sorry have to disagree with some of that, many jobs have the safety of other in their hands..the electrical trade is no different than a bricklayer or a carpenter they all need to do their work to a more or less reasonable standard so it doesn't fall down and clobber someone. The difference seems to be that for some misconceived reason the sparks seem to require some sort of heavy policing

I wouldn't say "heavy Policing" is required, what I would say is anyone who deems to be an Electrician needs to be fully qualified, with the relevant experience and be certified by a certifying body, a bit like a Gas engineer would be, one body one trade imho, after all we wouldn't want unqualified people working on electrical installations, would we?????????????????

 

[valleybilly]

Ok guys so I have a friend of a friend who has zero electrical qualifications. He's setup his own lighting business doing LED conversions. He mainly swaps fluorescent light fittings for LED panels and sometimes adds extra fittings too. He's done so in offices, factories, gyms and he's soon going to be working in schools. He hasn't got any test instruments and doesn't get any Zs values for any of the circuits that he's worked on and therefore doesn't produce any sort of certification.

My question is, is he breaking the law?

I find it crazy as the company I work for requires a minor works certificate every time I replace a socket outlet or a light switch.

No if he's only repacing fittings/Yes if extending curcuits on public buildings although if said then they should already have testing every 3 years for him to refer to with or without RCD protection . Re doing my Gas Safe next month and its all Statutory so no grey areas there n so easy to follow hint hint . OOPS BnQ etc will have to stop selling half there gear LOL

 

[Mumfi]

Does this mean that as a basic sparky I cant do any work without being a member of these organisations, if so how long has this been the case? I haven't come across this before, does it involve doing more learning?..i hope not as I'm not up for that at my age, or maybe because ive been in the game for so many years I would get through anyway on length of service anyway, that seems fair

 

[telectrix]

Does this mean that as a basic sparky I cant do any work without being a member of these organisations, if so how long has this been the case? I haven't come across this before, does it involve doing more learning?..i hope not as I'm not up for that at my age, or maybe because ive been in the game for so many years I would get through anyway on length of service anyway, that seems fair

as long as you are competent, you can do any work that you want to. only thing you'll have a problem with is notifiable work, to see what jobs are notifiable to your LABC, download part p doc. from planning portal.

 

[Mumfi]

Sorry a bit confused here...what has electrical work got to do with planning? surely that's just for builders not sparkies

 

[Taylortwocities]

It is about Building Regulations and Building Control, not planning.

 

[FatAlan]

Planning is the hurdle you have to get through before building and another raft of regulations jealously controlled by jobsworths at the local authorities.

 

[Mumfi]

Planning is the hurdle you have to get through before building and another raft of regulations jealously controlled by jobsworths at the local authorities.

 

[Mumfi]

Ok so whats it got to do with Building regs again surely this is for builders noit sparkies

 

[Mumfi]

It is about Building Regulations and Building Control, not planning.

 

[Mumfi]

And going back to competence surely this is what appenticeships were for...when you pass out youre competent?