Domestic Electrical Issue - Live Volts in House but Not Getting Shocks. Any Help Appreciated

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Discuss Domestic Electrical Issue - Live Volts in House but Not Getting Shocks. Any Help Appreciated in the UK Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

R

R Yates

Hi All, firstly to introduce myself I'm not an electrician but was hoping to get a bit of advice on an electrical issue I have. Basically we wanted to get a boiler service but the plumber would not touch the boiler as he said we have electrical volts running through the house (radiators, sink, boiler, plug sockets etc). There is a link to the videos below to explain this.

Dropbox - Electrics Issue - https://www.dropbox.com/sh/umynb3ta0j7sdo4/AABwsQkPwfBwDvdoe7LrtMpXa?dl=0

We are not getting any shocks and apparently it is running through all circuits in the house. Every electrician we have talked to is baffled by it. I was wondering whether anyone has ever come across this and what advice you may have on how to proceed/what may be causing it?

Many thanks in advance as I appreciate this is a first post.
 
Shame you didn't put up a video of an electrician investigating. I would set absolutely no credence in what I just saw as a test. Could be as low as 12v with those testers. And if every electrician is baffled by it well I can't believe you have spoken to an electrician.
 
Hi RY and welcome to the forum !
Sorry you are having problems and I support the previous posts that it needs a proper test.
 
What type of supply coming in? TT or TN-C-S? I would be checking out the earth back at the main DB... it suggests to me that there is no earth connected. If TT is there an earth rod, if so is it giving a good earth reading? If TN-C-S is there a earth cable to the terminal provided by the rec?
 
@ OP.ifyou are the right side of munchester ( i.e. the west ) it's just within my theatre of operations.
 
Thanks all for the quick replies. The plumber recommended an electrician who had never seen it before and spent hours looking for the problem to no avail. We then got another electrician with a good reputation who came out one evening, it's 75v that is flowing through everything and he said he cannot understand why the RCD is not kicking in. We are not getting any kind of tingling (the electrician said it wold feel like a static shock). He said it would be investigate work to try to find the source to start with and worst case scenario a potential rewire at up to £3-4k. There were more details but didn't get chance to write it all down so I'm not sure about the supply Andy but I'll find out.

I admit I don't fully understand the details/implications which is why I wanted to reach out to see if there were any pointers/anyone who had come across this before given the potential end cost.

Telectrix we are north west gtr Manchester.

Again, appreciate the help so far from everyone
 
They said it would be investigative work to start with to find the source of the issue but that they couldn't promise they would find it. So I said if it can't be found what is the worst case scenario and that is when a rewire was mentioned.
 
They could turn off circuits one by one and narrow it down that way. Then standard break down of that circuit (it is unlikely to be more than one) to identify a cable someone put a nail through. Clearly it is something like that. There are quite a few simple things to narrow it down pretty quickly. But I do agree with the spark who said he can't understand why the RCD did not go off that is worrying. Did he leave your electrics on or issue a danger notice? As it is over 50v, I don't think I would be happy leaving you with that until I had some kind of resolution. Either switching off or identifying the problem. Yeh get Tel in and tell us whats going on Tel!
 
R Yates said:
Thanks all for the quick replies. The plumber recommended an electrician who had never seen it before and spent hours looking for the problem to no avail. We then got another electrician with a good reputation who came out one evening, it's 75v that is flowing through everything and he said he cannot understand why the RCD is not kicking in. We are not getting any kind of tingling (the electrician said it wold feel like a static shock). He said it would be investigate work to try to find the source to start with and worst case scenario a potential rewire at up to £3-4k. There were more details but didn't get chance to write it all down so I'm not sure about the supply Andy but I'll find out.

I admit I don't fully understand the details/implications which is why I wanted to reach out to see if there were any pointers/anyone who had come across this before given the potential end cost.

Telectrix we are north west gtr Manchester.

Again, appreciate the help so far from everyone
Click to expand...
send me a pm if you want me to sort it early next week.
 
Agree with @Voltigern at least if you or someone can do this then it might give a visiting sparks half a chance to help without ripping your whole house apart
 
Yeah, this issue does have the potential to be a real hazard that could cause someone to get a shock so get a sparky in with real test instruments and good experience in using them, the voltstick type testers in the video aren't giving any actual useful info. I'd take Telectrix up on his offer of assistance if I were you.
 
Cheers for the replies.

Vortigern, they did isolate the circuits individually and it is running through all four which is why they said investigative work testing sockets, connections etc one by one is their recommended way to try to find the issue in the first instance. The electrics are still on.

Telectrix thanks for the offer, we have already booked in the electrician to come out initially to try to source the problem and if they can't do this after a day's work I'll pm you.

Will keep you updated.
 
What the chaps are saying, from watching your videos, the equipment shown being used, is not proper test equipment, more like toys. If the 'electrician' is using them to fault find, he/she won't find the fault, if one actually exists. :)
 
Might not have made it clear in my earlier posts, the video's were taken by the plumber initially who said we needed it looked at before they could do a service on the boiler.

The electrician who has diagnosed that it's 75v, on all circuits etc. was using proper diagnostic equipment, much more advanced than what is in the videos.
 
I bet there's a damaged cable on one circuit only probably creating a very low resistance to the circuit CPC , the circuits need proper disconnection at the consumer unit to narrow the problem down and locate.
 
Read the thread and seen that video:D I was disappointed that it did not show the investigator with a divining rod

To the op,be aware

There is no restriction on the term " Electrician",it can be considered and used by anyone,even a plumber ;)
 
Well if it is running through four circuits then it must be where cables are bunched together. Just thinking aloud really, just ignore me. Still would be scared to have a shower though.
 
sounds very much like a problem i got called out to once on a tns system, all they said at the time was if they touched the sink or rads without anything on their feet they were getting a shock but if they had their shoes on they was ok, so that's what they had been doing for 2 months, went to check it out, voltage present at sink and rads, same again no rcds tripping, problem was out in the street at the joint coming into the house, joint had blown sending voltage up through the old lead sheaf, electricity north west was out within 20 mins, and took them 2 days to sort it out after a lot of digging, just mention it to your electrician so he can check, will only take him 2 mins before he starts ripping your house apart
 
QUOTE [What the chaps are saying, from watching your videos, the equipment shown being used, is not proper test equipment, more like toys. If the 'electrician' is using them to fault find, he/she won't find the fault, if one actually exists.] END QUOTE.

Not quite -
Most electricians would not work on an instalation based solely on what a non contact tester yells them,
They are known to give eronious results sometimes.
so they would back it up with further more reliable testing.
In you op you said that the traddie claimed there is power running thru your earth system,
therefore it is dangerous, and he based this presumibly on a non contact test ?
The fact is most if not all earhing systems will have small currents bleeding thru them,
That does not always mean they are dangerous.
the best way to determine if its safe to work on is put a decent load on it,
such as a test lamp, if the voltage suddenly dissappears ?
then it is a ghost voltage.
probably what you got on your system.
 
crow11 said:
sounds very much like a problem i got called out to once on a tns system, all they said at the time was if they touched the sink or rads without anything on their feet they were getting a shock but if they had their shoes on they was ok, so that's what they had been doing for 2 months, went to check it out, voltage present at sink and rads, same again no rcds tripping, problem was out in the street at the joint coming into the house, joint had blown sending voltage up through the old lead sheaf, electricity north west was out within 20 mins, and took them 2 days to sort it out after a lot of digging, just mention it to your electrician so he can check, will only take him 2 mins before he starts ripping your house apart
Click to expand...

Seen a couple of broken neutral connections in joint boxes under the pavement. One was at my house. Caused the earth to rise to a sufficient level to give shocks when metal switches were touched. Mind you, they were quick out to fix it!
 
I do hate it when people call them plug sockets. They are either plugs or sockets but never both.
 
I had a customer getting a slight 'shock' off a brass light switch, my MFT measured 75v ac from the CPC to the radiator below. It wasn't a constant ac tingle, more like a static electric zap or a capacitor discharging. Powered it down, checked R2 with a wander lead back to MET, no continuity. Tracked back along the ceiling roses and found the CPCs not joined where someone DIY had chucked up a nice B&Q chandelier. Restored the CPC, meggered the circuit to make sure no damage/leakage, and powered up again - 75v ac gone, no tingle any more. As the insulation resistance was all fine, I can only assume that the stray voltage was induced from phase to CPC? And since the CPC was broken, it had nowhere to go it stored it like a weak capacitor?

Any thoughts on this?

Could this be what the OP is experiencing, but for the whole property? (I.e. There is not a solid earth connected to the property?)
 
Appreciate all the replies and help with this and apologies for the delay my side, had to work out of the country on short notice for the last few weeks so have only been around briefly on weekends. Cancelled the electrician who was coming out due to the above so Telectrix I will pm you now about it.

Cheers all
 
update on this:

R.Yates sent me a pm asking me to sort it for him. I called yesterday and initial tests showed 241V L-N and 148V L-E. no reading for Ze. as suspected, it was an earth fault. wander lead out and proved continuity of MEC from meter E block to CU (PME system, house built c.2000). fault was the N-E link inside the cut-out was not tight. 1/2 -3/4 turn on each screw resolved problem, Ze 0.15, Zs @ random socket 0.55. done and dusted in an hour and a half.
 

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