FiTs changes cut-off date

[TedM]

Note that the cut-off date for the changes is the 12th December. But the wording is: "new generation tariffs should apply from 1 April 2012 to all new solar PV installations which become eligible for FITs on or after an earlier ‘reference date’ which we propose should be 12 December 2011"

So you need to get the system installed, commissioned and registered with the supplier by 11th December - which is a Sunday - for the current rates to apply. That means that the effective change-over date is actually Friday 9th December.

[Subject to changes pending consultation]

 

[GaryM]

So this is not written in stone yet?
Where do we stand at present?

 

[Graeme Harrold]

Im telling customers Monday the 4th to ensure paperwork is done. Im sure the MCS database will crash a few times during the week!!

 

[Graeme Harrold]

So this is not written in stone yet?
Where do we stand at present?

Final decision is end of December, but the line in the sand is set at 12 Dec. This may slip back, but wont come forward. Work towards the 12th and treat any date slippage as a bonus...

 

[GaryM]

Clear as mud then......idiots (not you!)

 

[Guest123]

Greg Barker was questioned directly by a member of the house on the exact date and wether it was subject to alteration, he categorically stated the 12th of December is the cut-off date.

I quote "the date must be fixed in order to avoid any confusion or uncertainty"

 

[SRE]

Final decision is end of December, but the line in the sand is set at 12 Dec. This may slip back, but wont come forward. Work towards the 12th and treat any date slippage as a bonus...

My understanding is that the consultation ends on Dec 23rd but then that will need to be collated and in theory government will then have to take note and make a final decision. I reckon it could be the end of January before tere is some clear, confirmed details of what is happening.

 

[BruceB]

Isn't it so very Alice in Wonderland that the legislation allows the consulation about a change to take place after the change has taken place.

 

[Guest123]

Isn't it so very Alice in Wonderland that the legislation allows the consulation about a change to take place after the change has taken place.

That was brought up on a number of occasions too.

 

[mart the sparky]

evening all...& greetings to one and all (new to the forum) Very interesting & informative site.
anyhow, cant believe how wrong todays decision on FIT's is! for keeping people in work (and off the dole), for the environment etc etc. why/how on earth did they come to this decision?

 

[TedM]

The government's logic appears to be simple.

At 43.3p you can install X systems until the budget runs out.

At 21p you can install 2X systems for the same budget. Therefore twice as many installs get done and twice as many installers are employed.

As I say, simple.

 

[JulianC]

Yes, the government appears to be simple.

 

[piggyitm]

This is good news.Its about time that this propped up subsidized market is pushed back towards a more free market and allow the "bubble" that it created to burst.
Sad for those who jumped on the wagon too late.Good for those who didn't want to pay £700 for a solar course and good for the solar buying customers, who will both see prices PLUMMET.

 

[moggy1968]

yeh, destroying a whole industry in 24 hours is really good news, you idiot.
Yes, the tariff needed adjusting, but this is too much at too short a notice.
prices won't plummet, the number of installlers will plummet.
With less suppliers interested in supporting the UK market because of a lack of business and with china, india and others developing their own FiT prices may even rise.
OH yes, and all those sparks now not employed in solar will be chasing the same work as you, so you'd better look at your prices as well!

 

[piggyitm]

I'll excuse your "idiot" rant as your obviously pretty ****ed off about this.No one likes to take a hit."Destroying a whole industry in 24Hrs"Sounds like a knee jerk to a market correction.Only a free market can be survive long term.Yes getting there in a few big cuts rather than lots of small ones is harsh but it's still going the same direction.It was always the governments idea as technology improved and prices dropped.
If there is more demand than installers right now then it will save some installers jobs through less emerging competition.
Did anyone feel for those employed in the Home Information Pack industry?They were all dumped back onto the jobs market.

Anyway time will tell

 

[moggy1968]

no need to excuse it, the number of 'likes' for my post suggest it was fair.
This is an ill thought out, poorly executed panic measure, and a disaster for the industry and consumers. anyone suggesting it's a market correction is deluded. The timing and level of cut is beyond belief and any kind of logical thought I can find. It was always the governments idea to have an 8-10% return on investment to encourage people into renewable energy, not 4% as is now proposed. corrections were expected to reflect reduced costs of materials. but the FiT has been reduced by over 50% while prices have only dropped by 30%.A cut to 30p would have been more like it, implemented with reasonable notice.

suggesting it's a free market is a nonsense. we need, for the good of the environment, our economy, our health, our natural resources, our futures and our childrens futures to encourage renewable energy, and that means investment from government (although actually they don't pay for FiTS)
There isn't more demand than installers right now. I wrote a letter to Professional electrician some time ago stating how they and the likes of the NICEIC were saturating the market with installers sold on the idea of an easy buck with no information at all about the downsides and pitfalls. there are already too many installers in the market place to be sustainable.
see my other post re HIPS, yes I did feel for them.

 

[snoopyspark]

+1 moggy piggy needs to engage brain b4 posting, we expected a cut, and i agree with getting rid of the free pv rent a roof to housing assoc's etc but 43.3 to 21 is too deep a cut too soon, a 20% cut this year then 10% a year from then on would have done the job, this just kills it!

 

[piggyitm]

On the idiot slur, the mere fact that a belief is widely-held is not necessarily a guarantee that the belief is correct.Anyway
Who's panicking and why?Apart from those falsely lured by Dragons Den.
I'm suggesting trade should be allowed to to perform as a free market especially after the boost to get it PV kick started ended up in a saturated market and a waiting list inflating the price of materials.
The claim that we need FiT to help encourage renewable's for environmental reasons, until proven, is a false dilemma used to create sales. Consumers will try and save the planet all day long if you pay them 40p to do it.
Did you get any reply form Professional Electrician?At least there was a minimum entry requirement so it was only diversifying sparks drifting over.

 

[SolarCity]

How dare you come on here barking about free markets and market correction while the rest of us gaze down the barrell of Greg Barker's hip gun.

Yes, the market needs propping up. The main, and pretty obvious, reason for this is that green energy costs more than dirty energy. Therefore, the uptake on green energy was far too slow - a situation that only a complete idiot would allow to continue. So the government introduced an incentive to kick start the industry. Like many have pointed out, over the last few months this has clearly been too generous and it needed adjusting. However, the arguments that most of us are making is that this has effectively ripped out the spine of the entire industry - and I personally think that it is going to take a serious amount of time for it to recover.

Meanwhile, it makes our green targets even harder to hit and the potential fines will be far greater than the comparitive pittance that is spent 'propping' up this exciting industry. It will also, even with an optimistic outlook, result in massive job losses. It is likely that the knock to the confidence to both consumer and installer will mean that any chance that the UK had of competing with the rest of the world when it comes to clean energy will be wiped out. That is where your longing for a free market will get you.

And this is "good news"? You, sir, are an immense peckerhead.

 

[malcoa]

I think someone regrets not jumping on the "band wagon".
I jumped on it as the wheels fell off lol

 

[solarsavings]

On the idiot slur, the mere fact that a belief is widely-held is not necessarily a guarantee that the belief is correct.Anyway
Who's panicking and why?Apart from those falsely lured by Dragons Den.
I'm suggesting trade should be allowed to to perform as a free market especially after the boost to get it PV kick started ended up in a saturated market and a waiting list inflating the price of materials.
The claim that we need FiT to help encourage renewable's for environmental reasons, until proven, is a false dilemma used to create sales. Consumers will try and save the planet all day long if you pay them 40p to do it.
Did you get any reply form Professional Electrician?At least there was a minimum entry requirement so it was only diversifying sparks drifting over.

That has to be the most ill-informed post I have ever read on any forum, and that takes some beating.

 

[piggyitm]

That has to be the most ill-informed post I have ever read on any forum, and that takes some beating.

Ok,I don't read the Guardian so re educate me,I'm all ears.

 

[SolarCity]

Ok,I don't read the Guardian so re educate me,I'm all ears.

"Who's panicking and why?Apart from those falsely lured by Dragons Den."

Panic? Those that are seeing their business plans and possibly their businesses themselves destroyed in a matter of a few weeks? And what is this 'falsely lured' nonsense?

"I'm suggesting trade should be allowed to to perform as a free market especially after the boost to get it PV kick started ended up in a saturated market and a waiting list inflating the price of materials."

Nonsense. The price of materials has plumetted due to overstock. The simple fact is that the PV market cannot work without a subsidy. Does this mean we should just give up on it and burn more fossil fuels? Is that your plan?

"The claim that we need FiT to help encourage renewable's for environmental reasons, until proven, is a false dilemma used to create sales."

False claim?! PV isn't new.... the FIT is. Check out the stats for installs in the last 10 years and then tell me you need more proof.

Like SS said, a spectacularly ill-informed post. Greg Barker would be impressed.

 

[FatblokeSolar]

Hi All

This decision has really put the boot in to a lot of people.

We knew the FIT would be reviewed and probably reduced - an over 50% reduction is severe but thats the chance you take.

The real problem is the government moving the goalposts with the cut off date from the end on March next year to December this year - that was very sneaky and underhanded. All they had to do was announce the cut but keep the date the same to give the industry time to adapt.

The decision, apart from causing meltdown in the industry with everybody wanting everything done at once, will cause businesses to fail and people who have purchased systems or paid a deposit for systems but don't have them installed yet will lose a lot of money that they had planned on getting. Many people will now feel that they have just thrown away their savings and / or money they have borrowed to get their system.

I have spoken to my MSP, Angus MacDonald and he has taken an interest in this injustice and I am sure he will add some weight to the argument if he can.

Cheers

Dave

 

[FatblokeSolar]

Hi All

Just had another thought.

What if someone already has a small system fitted and are on the c urrent FIT and they want to add panels to the system to increase its capacity?

What happens with the FIT they are already on? Do they get the increased capacity at the same FIT, is their FIT reduced for the whole capacity or is there a split rate?

Cheers

Dave

 

[TedM]

Any extension gets paid at the rate current at the time it is installed. Meter readings would get pro-rated across the different tariffs.

 

[Guest123]

Solar PV is getting good coverage on Prime Ministers questions.

Lots of different MP's are bringing it up. The letters & e-mails are obviously getting through.

 

[pirhead]

I nearly fell off my chair when I was told the decision for the FITs-I could not believe it for what its worth one of the lads was saying that the govrmt was getting its collar felt by the energy companies for the loss of income, and being major fund contributors has nothing to do with it though!!! I feel thunder in my heart to coin a phrase!!!

 

[Guest123]

I would just like to remind everyone that personal insults towards another member are not permitted under forum rules.

Keep it civil

Thank you.

 

[FatblokeSolar]

Hi All

Got info back from my MSP, Angus MacDonald. He has raised the issue with the Cabinet Secretary, John Swinney so now the Scottish Government are also looking into it. They will hopefully be able to add a bit of weight to the argument.

Regards

Dave

 

[Spudnik]

As Lenny has already said, put the handbags away or the thread will be closed and members infracted or banned.

There are no second warnings.

Thank you.