Horstmann Electronic 7 seems to be constantly on!

[cgf1508]

Hello,
We have recently purchased a house with an immersion heater, but found that the programmer for the heater was broken so had this replaced with a Horstmann Electronic 7. However, we have recently found that our electricity bills are extortionate and are worried that this is due to the fact that the heater could be on all day.
When I use the ‘switched output’ switch to turn the heater off this does not seem to have turned the heater off. Another point that may be of note is that we have recently had our electricity taken off Economy 7 due to having the storage heaters replaced in the property with more efficient, could this switch to a single rate be the cause of our very high bills as the Horstmann isn’t compatible with a single rate?
Many thanks in advance!

 

[RED~SIX]

Hello,
We have recently purchased a house with an immersion heater, but found that the programmer for the heater was broken so had this replaced with a Horstmann Electronic 7. However, we have recently found that our electricity bills are extortionate and are worried that this is due to the fact that the heater could be on all day.
When I use the ‘switched output’ switch to turn the heater off this does not seem to have turned the heater off. Another point that may be of note is that we have recently had our electricity taken off Economy 7 due to having the storage heaters replaced in the property with more efficient, could this switch to a single rate be the cause of our very high bills as the Horstmann isn’t compatible with a single rate?
Many thanks in advance!

With electric hot water it’s best left on all day controlled by the stat on the element.

 

[Resu]

The electronic 7 requires a 24 hour supply and is completely compatible with your current setup. As Red has pointed out, the stat within the immersion element should stop the element drawing power when it gets up to temp.

It's a "six and two three's" situation. You either time it to suit yourself/family's hot water needs or leave it on all the time relying on the stat. In the first scenario, if you were to use all the hot water before the timer kicks back in then the element is going to need to run for longer to get the whole tank hot again. On the flipside if it's on all the time then it'll be doing little "top-ups" as and when you run the tap.

When the switch on the front of the E7 is in the off position there should be no power to the element. If you think there is then it's possible it's been wired wrong (quite difficult to do as they as so well marked up!).

 

[Ziggie]

There are things to try. You can reset the unit to the standard times. The details of how to do this or I can tell you.

secondly , do you have another timer ?
Can the other timer which probably works the room temperature also control the hot water?
Do you have a thermostat on the cylinder ?
When you switch off the timer, I would expect that the display will still be visible as the unit has a battery within it to preserve the time and display.

can you give a quick outline of your system? ( do you have radiators, night storage , how many timers, thermostats?

 

[Ziggie]

Reading up on the device . (Ignore some of my note)
The water temperature is controlled by the built in thermostat (s) of the immersion heater. There can be up to two rods and the wiring is adjusted accordingly.
The unit will continue to heat the water if the thermostat has failed (open circuit) in the immersion heater or if the thermostat is set to a high temperature.

If you don’t have economy 7 any more, then the device is connected to the single electrical supply
The unit may need to be reset and programmed (documented that this happens in the documentation)

my economy 7 implementation did not have a separate wiring but simply switched on the timer on the electricity meter.

 

[cgf1508]

There are things to try. You can reset the unit to the standard times. The details of how to do this or I can tell you.

secondly , do you have another timer ?
Can the other timer which probably works the room temperature also control the hot water?
Do you have a thermostat on the cylinder ?
When you switch off the timer, I would expect that the display will still be visible as the unit has a battery within it to preserve the time and display.

can you give a quick outline of your system? ( do you have radiators, night storage , how many timers, thermostats?

I’ve pressed the boost, minus, plus and select buttons to reset the unit and I’ve also literally set it so it comes on for one minute, three times a day (e.g. comes on at 12:00 and off at 12:01) to make sure it was clicking on and off for a minimum amount of time possible.
At the minute, I’ve switched the fuse(?) switch off so the tank isn’t powered but due to the battery as you mentioned the display is still on. I’m not sure about a thermostat on the cylinder, where could I find this?
We used to have night storage radiators but recently (2nd December) had them replaced with Dimplex QRAD-E electric radiators and had our economy 7 switched over to a single rate. No further timers or thermostats I’m aware of, but the Dimplex heaters we now have are controlled via an app which tells me how much electricity they’re using and I’ve worked out that they’re not the source of our very high bills.

 

[radiohead]

As above, even if the immersion heater is on 24hrs the thermostat cuts in and out and will maintain the tank at a constant temperature. If the element was heating all the time the tank would boil, as it appears not to be then I doubt the IH is the cause of your apparent excessive bill. Obviously the more hot water you draw off then the higher the cost, and a poorly insulated tank will also waste a great deal of paid for heat. There is a school of thought that it is better to leave the hot water on constantly 'topping up' as used rather than heating a cold tank from scratch every night.
I would suggest you have a look at your new heaters which have replaced the storage heating. Whilst you state 'more efficient' it is worth pointing out that all electric heating is 100% efficient, your grannies ancient 3 bar 'fire' is just as efficient as a modern panel radiator. The only difference is that the modern heater has accurate temperature controls and is programmable so that it automatically does not provide heat when not required, whereas your granny has to manually turn off the 3 bar fire when she feels too hot.
Do you have any electric underfoor heating, in bathrooms for example. These are a common cause of high bills as it is not always apparent they are switched on. I've attended 'high bills' complaints before and found that an UFH mat has been running 24/7 for weeks on end.

edit. posted before post #6 stated new heater costs accounted for

 

[Ziggie]

I’ve pressed the boost, minus, plus and select buttons to reset the unit and I’ve also literally set it so it comes on for one minute, three times a day (e.g. comes on at 12:00 and off at 12:01) to make sure it was clicking on and off for a minimum amount of time possible.
At the minute, I’ve switched the fuse(?) switch off so the tank isn’t powered but due to the battery as you mentioned the display is still on. I’m not sure about a thermostat on the cylinder, where could I find this?
We used to have night storage radiators but recently (2nd December) had them replaced with Dimplex QRAD-E electric radiators and had our economy 7 switched over to a single rate. No further timers or thermostats I’m aware of, but the Dimplex heaters we now have are controlled via an app which tells me how much electricity they’re using and I’ve worked out that they’re not the source of our very high bills.

Hi,
The way it works is it uses the thermostat that is installed with the heating elements in the boiler. I was trying to find out if there was another controller working the water in addition to this controller.

given that you have set the times to minimum , then the water should be cold! If that’s true, then it’s working ok Set up the first interval to say 1 hours before you get up till 1 hour after you would finish your showers .
That should be using the minimum electricity. Use boost during the day if needed.
Tune it using the 3 intervals to suit after you confirm it’s working.

old economy 7 systems used two separate wiring systems and much of my questions were checking that this was not the case.

give me an update as I hope this has helped!

ps if the water is extremely hot it might be worth having someone alter the thermostat within the immersion heater but beware that there’s main electricity very near the control.

 

[Ziggie]

BTW:

There is a cheap tool available that you may have. It’s a non-contact voltage tester.
These bleep when there is electricity ( over 40 volts) flowing in a cable.

if you have one then run it over the outside of the cable going to the immersion heater.
It should bleep when the immersion heater is working and silent when it is not!

warning never use it to check if a cable is not live.... it’s not that reliable.

always use it on another cable that you know is live ( e.g. cable to kettle)

This would check if the unit is working as expected!

 

[Zerax]

If I were you... I'd get something like this... so that you can see how much electricity you are using... then compare that to your electricity bills. I use one... and a quick glance tells me if I've left the heating on or someone's spending more than 2 mins in the shower so I need to turn it off.

Efergy Elite 4.0 Classic Wireless Electricity Monitor - Smart Green Shop

The Efergy Elite Classic 4.0 energy monitor is the ideal simple electricity for your home . Very simple to set up and use and your energy use is shown simply on a very clear display. Find out more

smartgreenshop.co.uk

 

[Ziggie]

As above, even if the immersion heater is on 24hrs the thermostat cuts in and out and will maintain the tank at a constant temperature. If the element was heating all the time the tank would boil, as it appears not to be then I doubt the IH is the cause of your apparent excessive bill. Obviously the more hot water you draw off then the higher the cost, and a poorly insulated tank will also waste a great deal of paid for heat. There is a school of thought that it is better to leave the hot water on constantly 'topping up' as used rather than heating a cold tank from scratch every night.
I would suggest you have a look at your new heaters which have replaced the storage heating. Whilst you state 'more efficient' it is worth pointing out that all electric heating is 100% efficient, your grannies ancient 3 bar 'fire' is just as efficient as a modern panel radiator. The only difference is that the modern heater has accurate temperature controls and is programmable so that it automatically does not provide heat when not required, whereas your granny has to manually turn off the 3 bar fire when she feels too hot.
Do you have any electric underfoor heating, in bathrooms for example. These are a common cause of high bills as it is not always apparent they are switched on. I've attended 'high bills' complaints before and found that an UFH mat has been running 24/7 for weeks on end.

edit. posted before post #6 stated new heater costs accounted for

I think your idea of the new heaters causing the problem should bot be discounted. I suggest that you consider switching one room off (if you can) and see if that leads to a drop in costs ( or turn the temp down a bit for one room)

 

[Ziggie]

I think your idea of the new heaters causing the problem should bot be discounted. I suggest that you consider switching one room off (if you can) and see if that leads to a drop in costs ( or turn the temp down a bit for one room)

It’s common knowledge that electric heaters are one of the most expensive forms of heating. Quote from a money saving expert.

 

[7029 dave]

Coming off E7 with an immersion will defiantly cause increase to your billing if it is your main sauce of heating your hot water if that is the case.

 

[7029 dave]

It’s common knowledge that electric heaters are one of the most expensive forms of heating. Quote from a money saving expert.

Yep any form of all electric is expensive do doubt about it.