L-N reverse closed

[Delboybully]

The thread i started has been closed so i had to start a new one to respond

To D80, i dont use a voltstick to prove a circuit is dead, i have just got into the habit of using it before i test for dead

To Dpelectricalltd, I shall stick around even though i know how much some of the posters on here love bashing us Electrical Trainee's, time will tell how much bashing i get

After phoning the DNO i did try the suppliers customer service number. It was closed. The DNO did give me 3 other numbers to call of which 2 were answer phone (closed) and one was non existant. The customer then said they had some paperwork 'somewhere' that they thought had some emergency numbers on and after waiting for 25mins, they hadnt found it, that was when i left. Before leaving I told them the best thing to do is to turn everything off, to which they replied that they cant live without electricity over the weekend and it has been ok since the meter has been installed (i did make them aware of how bad the situation is). So my next piece of advice was to unplug anything they are not using.

I phoned them today and they said they couldnt find the paperwork or anything on the internet so its round there i go tomorrow.

I feel i had a real tough decision to make. In trouble if i broke the seal, in trouble if i didint. Remember the training course told me in no uncertain terms, 'never touch the seal on the meter'. They told us they the supplier companies threaten to sue, £5k fines etc'. I also phoned 2 electricians i know. The first one is a Electrical Trainee with 2 years experience. He also said dont touch the seals and try to get either the DNO or suppler to come and fix it ASAP. The other is a time served 'proper' sparky. He said he would advice the customer to get the DNO/supplier to fix the problem, he said to me to not touch the seals or i could be in big trouble. So I now had 2 opinions that agreed with what i had been taught, dont touch the meter seals.

From reading the replies to my other post I am can see that i didnt do anything legally wrong in not cutting the seals, but i am worried that I should of cut them to fix them from a moral point of view. Interestingly due to the route of the tails, a photo wouldnt of easily proved they are incorrectly wired, so i also had to take into account that by not cutting the seals there is proof the meter installer screwed up and hopefully will be sacked.

I am going to phone my part p scheme provider tomorrow to see what they say i should of done

I will update tomorrow on what happens!

 

[sedgy34]

i carried on your thread switch to the metering guys thread

 

[telectrix]

The thread i started has been closed so i had to start a new one to respond

To D80, i dont use a voltstick to prove a circuit is dead, i have just got into the habit of using it before i test for dead

To Dpelectricalltd, I shall stick around even though i know how much some of the posters on here love bashing us Electrical Trainee's, time will tell how much bashing i get

After phoning the DNO i did try the suppliers customer service number. It was closed. The DNO did give me 3 other numbers to call of which 2 were answer phone (closed) and one was non existant. The customer then said they had some paperwork 'somewhere' that they thought had some emergency numbers on and after waiting for 25mins, they hadnt found it, that was when i left. Before leaving I told them the best thing to do is to turn everything off, to which they replied that they cant live without electricity over the weekend and it has been ok since the meter has been installed (i did make them aware of how bad the situation is). So my next piece of advice was to unplug anything they are not using.

I phoned them today and they said they couldnt find the paperwork or anything on the internet so its round there i go tomorrow.

I feel i had a real tough decision to make. In trouble if i broke the seal, in trouble if i didint. Remember the training course told me in no uncertain terms, 'never touch the seal on the meter'. They told us they the supplier companies threaten to sue, £5k fines etc'. I also phoned 2 electricians i know. The first one is a Electrical Trainee with 2 years experience. He also said dont touch the seals and try to get either the DNO or suppler to come and fix it ASAP. The other is a time served 'proper' sparky. He said he would advice the customer to get the DNO/supplier to fix the problem, he said to me to not touch the seals or i could be in big trouble. So I now had 2 opinions that agreed with what i had been taught, dont touch the meter seals.

From reading the replies to my other post I am can see that i didnt do anything legally wrong in not cutting the seals, but i am worried that I should of cut them to fix them from a moral point of view. Interestingly due to the route of the tails, a photo wouldnt of easily proved they are incorrectly wired, so i also had to take into account that by not cutting the seals there is proof the meter installer screwed up and hopefully will be sacked.

I am going to phone my part p scheme provider tomorrow to see what they say i should of done

I will update tomorrow on what happens!

as i said in a previous post, you had a difficult decision. from what i have read, you did as much as you could legally do. this whole business of DNO/supplier being the only persons legally allowed to cut seals needs addressing, along with fitting isolators and/or meters with the outgoing terminals accessible to us mortals.

 

[RISElectrical]

I read on here recently that some suppliers allow registered electricians to cut the seals if needed?

 

[londonlec]

Whatever you had done some people on here would have moaned anyway.

Not sure what else you could have done tbh.

Not sure if I would have cut seals and corrected it personally.
I used to work on a metering contract and every meter that gets installed gets a picture uploaded.

 

[mark ju]

Many years ago on new build work, the electricity board used to have meter fitters ( remember them) who would have a look around the property, IR and then connect the tails into their meter and seal it.
Just like Delboybully, I had always been told not to tamper with the seals. That was until one of these fitters told me that if needed cut the seals and be damned (his words). He was of the opinion that the board or DNO or whatever you wish to call them are perfectly understanding when it comes to this and would rather an electrician cut the seals to do work than risk working unsafely ( or leaving, as in this case, an unsafe condition)
Since then, if circumstances demand it, those seals come off! This is a practice that many of my workmates also follow.

 

[Strima]

I read on here recently that some suppliers allow registered electricians to cut the seals if needed?

IIRC UK Power allow sparkies to register with them to allow seals to be removed and refitted on a notification basis. Must be part of a competent persons scam and seals are replaced on a one-for-one basis.

 

[wacko]

A few weeks back I asked a Scottish Power fitter how much they would charge to fit an isolator. He didn't know the price but gave me an isolator.

"What about the seals?" I asked. "I just use snips," he told me!

 

[Amp David]

I read on here recently that some suppliers allow registered electricians to cut the seals if needed?

Think it was SSE and the ECA/Elecsa

 

[Amp David]

A few weeks back I asked a Scottish Power fitter how much they would charge to fit an isolator. He didn't know the price but gave me an isolator.

"What about the seals?" I asked. "I just use snips," he told me!

Had the same response from the DNO.

Got them out to sort a bad earth at a property. I said in passing to the engineer that the seals were already cut and TBH honest he didn't even care. Just said that you can'tbe expected to work live if working on the tails.

When he had left, no seal on fuse, just shows how much the guys on the tools actually care.

One last thing, if the service head belongs to the DNO, the why does the suppliers meter fitter hammer the service head with 'DO NOT REOMOVE' tape, when its not theirs??

 

[AP Electrical]

Out of intrested does anyone reseal the carrier ?, personnely any I find "missing" I replace.

 

[robsparky1975]

The question is what would be better the possibilty of someone coming to harm from the result of reverse polarity or someones seals being removed to prevent such a hazard and correcting the issues after exhausting all the possible avenues to contact the supplier,common sense should prevail in the end.

 

[Amp David]

Out of intrested does anyone reseal the carrier ?, personnely any I find "missing" I replace.

Yes I do. Got the seals from ebay, but have a die for my crimper with a middle finger on it LOL

 

[DurhamSparky]

i seal mine with a love and a kiss then stick a MR ELECTRIC label over the carrier!!

 

[Amp David]

Bonus!

 

[BillyTheSparks]

Could you not reverse the tails in the cu so as to correct the reverse polarity for the short term and swap them back when the DNO are there??

I haven't seen the original post from the original thread so if I have just repeated something or am missing the point I appologuise in advance

 

[DurhamSparky]

what you are suggesting is dangerous!!!

working live is against all things HSE preech about!

 

[Goody]

Builders break seal all the time when they replace CU's and they never get caught or sued.

 

[sedgy34]

Sorry I think I would have pulled the main fuse and rectified the problem

 

[Darkwood]

Il repost my opinions and experience from a legal point, if the premises is in danger or persons on the premises and you have no means to rectify the danger other than to cut the seals and remove the fuse then you can do so, this will only arise in situations where main switch is shorting, tails are exposed and dangerous, water is causing dist'board problems and safer not to touch it etc etc, with regards to reversed polarity as mentioned in a few threads it isnt an excuse to cut the seals as the double pole customer main switch will make it safe and if needed the DNO can be called out to rectify it, ive cut the seals 3 times and got DNO in and everytime they questioned me fully but accepted i did the right course of action, so to re-iterate if turning the power off by the main switch will stop any hazard you are dealingwith then you have no legal ground to break the seals.