Lamps blowing!!

[HappyHippyDad]

Afternoon..

I have been to visit a regular client who has said that some lamps that I fitted having been blowing regularly.

I fitted 11 halogen (ES fittings) outside lamps along a long driveway. SWA along the route sperated with adaptable boxes, from which seperate cable leads up to light.

Approx one blows every 3 weeks and this has been on going for around 9 months.

I am unsure of the quality of the lamp but the client states he has tried various ones with no success.

Voltage is 242V. All connections are well made.

The only 2 things that I can think of are :

1. The set up is the 11 lights come on with a timer OR by one of 2 seperate PIR's (one at top of drive and one at bottom). I cant see how this would be a problem but wanted to give the full picture.

2. I do not like the adaptable boxes, I was using a new type for the first time, they had reasonable reviews but 2 had water inside of them which did not happen with the previous boxes that I am now using again. Poor IR results for L/N-E 0.08MΩ. I have cleared the poor IR results which were due to the water ingress in one of the boxes but wondered if this could be why the lamps are blowing?

Or any other thoughts that I am overlooking?

Cheers all..

 

[UKMeterman]

Ok,
One keeps blowing every two weeks, how long does an indivdual lamp last take actual notes.

1. What type of fitting and actual lamp.
2. Does the fitting keep the wind and rain off the lamp
3. What make of lamp is being fitted, try decent lamps from the likes of Philips or GE and relamp the whole lot at the same time.
4. When fitting the lamps are you using something to keep your fingers off the envelope of the lamp, use clean just off the roll paper towel between you and the glass.
5. PIR duty can be nasty lots of swtiching on and off, if customer wants to stick with halogen see if you arange a soft start circuit.
6. Try to see if the customer would like to go to LED.

 

[Richard Burns]

I would go with low quality eco halogen lamps or water condensing on the lamp so that they get unevenly heated on start up, possibly a loose connection to the ES base causing sparking/flickering.

 

[HappyHippyDad]

Ok,
One keeps blowing every two weeks, how long does an indivdual lamp last take actual notes.

1. What type of fitting and actual lamp.
2. Does the fitting keep the wind and rain off the lamp
3. What make of lamp is being fitted, try decent lamps from the likes of Philips or GE and relamp the whole lot at the same time.
4. When fitting the lamps are you using something to keep your fingers off the envelope of the lamp, use clean just off the roll paper towel between you and the glass.
5. PIR duty can be nasty lots of swtiching on and off, if customer wants to stick with halogen see if you arange a soft start circuit.
6. Try to see if the customer would like to go to LED.

1. ES, phillips lamps have been used.
2. Wind and rain is kept of the lamp. Lamps blowing randomly.
3. see 1
4. No. Could you explain a little more please? Is this a likely cause or just a thought?
5. Good idea.
6. They would but they wont.

Thanks for the strutured and useful response :smile5:

 

[Guest77]

Cheap fittings with poor quality lamp holders may be one reason.

 

[UKMeterman]

Ok,
Item 4, if this was a linear halogen or even a capsule bulb body oils on the quartz capsule will damage it. This should not be an issue if the quartz envelope is also enclosed in a second glass envelope.

Have a good look at the fittings and see that a good contact is being made between bulb and holder.

 

[HappyHippyDad]

I would go with low quality eco halogen lamps or water condensing on the lamp so that they get unevenly heated on start up, possibly a loose connection to the ES base causing sparking/flickering.

Thanks Richard,
-The customer did state they had tried 'Phillips' halogen lamps, but I will double check.
-If it is water condensing on the lamp causing the issue, is this because water is condensing on the lamp or the fact it is condensing on a 'poor quality lamp' (I think you'll understand that rather garbled sentence).
-If it was a loose connection then I would expect it to be the same lamp blowing. Plus the connections are good.

Could it not be down to the low (fluctuating) IR results? IR results must have dropped lower at some point as the RCD has tripped once or twice recently, hence calling me in. If there was almost a short between L and E this could have caused too much current to flow through lamp??

 

[ruston]

Maybe a clue ; I went to my local wholesaler today to buy some gu10s. I always buy Sylvania or Osram. " sorry " he says " stopped selling them , everyone is buying LEDs. There are some there in that box (on the counter) 79p each "

Now the customer has insisted on GU10s, and since the fittings are in and waiting for the lamps tomorrow , I had to buy them- Long story about delay with plumber and tiler.

So in ten days time I may be saying ; I have lamps blowing............

 

[HappyHippyDad]

Cheap fittings with poor quality lamp holders may be one reason.

Nice simple thought there Mike! I reckon you could be right. That would explain the fact that they blow randomly. Customer supplied the fittings unfortunately otherwise I could have researched a bit before fitting.

 

[UKMeterman]

When you say the connectiopns are good are the contacts in the lampholder nice and shiny?

 

[Octopus]

Why did you not use decent ip rated boxes like wiska?

 

[Deleted member 9648]

In my experience it's almost always the lamps,even good quality lamps are unpredictable. Think how much handling and abuse they get from manufacture to finally ending up in a fitting.A low IR will not affect the lamp. If contacts,voltage,switching and weather proofing are OK then it'll be the lamps.

 

[ipf]

In my experience it's almost always the lamps,even good quality lamps are unpredictable. Think how much handling and abuse they get from manufacture to finally ending up in a fitting.A low IR will not affect the lamp. If contacts,voltage,switching and weather proofing are OK then it'll be the lamps.

I'll go with that WP. Common sense.....and a bad batch of lamps doesn't have to be every lamp. May be one in twenty, ten, two....who knows, still a bad batch, even with the best.

 

[HappyHippyDad]

Why did you not use decent ip rated boxes like wiska?

I always do Murdoch, this time I got taken in by a cheaper box from screwfix (still not the cheapest though!) with reasonable reviews (I had used it once or twice before and it seemed fine, however with 11 of them it became evident it was poor quality). I have since reviewed the box and also mentioned about it on this forum in a thread I started as I was so disappointed with it.

Still silly though!

 

[trev]

Did a job with a mate of mine a couple of years ago where the customer supplied all materials. Downlights were C E D GU10s. Utter crap, the worst DLs I ever saw. Must have been about a quid a pop.
Anyway, he has tried the same complaint. Somehow it's our fault that he buys crap gear??????
A similar installation done at roughly the same time with JCC with pretty much the same methods hasn't had a single problem

 

[HappyHippyDad]

When you say the connectiopns are good are the contacts in the lampholder nice and shiny?

I got very caught up in the fault finding and geting the IR reading above the required standard that I have not looked at that. I will though.

 

[ipf]

When you say the connectiopns are good are the contacts in the lampholder nice and shiny?

If lamps have blown you should be able to tell from those replaced.

 

[Deleted member 72666]

Thanks Richard,
-The customer did state they had tried 'Phillips' halogen lamps, but I will double check.
-If it is water condensing on the lamp causing the issue, is this because water is condensing on the lamp or the fact it is condensing on a 'poor quality lamp' (I think you'll understand that rather garbled sentence).
-If it was a loose connection then I would expect it to be the same lamp blowing. Plus the connections are good.

Could it not be down to the low (fluctuating) IR results? IR results must have dropped lower at some point as the RCD has tripped once or twice recently, hence calling me in. If there was almost a short between L and E this could have caused too much current to flow through lamp??

Have another rethink on that!

 

[HappyHippyDad]

Have another rethink on that!

I know.. makes no sense.. all the current would be flowing to earth, not through the lamp! just wanted to try and come up with some ideas!!

Poor quality lamps or lamp holders are looking like the contenders.

Thanks everyone for the ideas.

 

[Deleted member 72666]

Are the lamps wall mounted or are they on pillars/posts? Just thinking that it's been rather windy these past few months! Don't rule out a combination of faults either such as contamination on the quartz glass, vibration, poor electrical contact (intermittent), poor quality lamps etc,etc,etc.