MCB or RCBO

[MerlinGremlin]

Got sent to a job today for an outside lighting issue, basically to cut a long story short I'm taking the new supply from a different DB so will be installing a new circuit to feed the time clock, so I put down for a Type C 20amp RCBO as the lights are wired in 2.5mm cable and LED floods. I got a phone call from my Manager to ask why I was putting an RCBO in and that it only needed to be an MCB, so after a heated discussion I was told that it will be an MCB going in not a an RCBO.
My argument was that as I'm installing a new supply it has to be compliant to currents regs so an RCBO was required. If I'm wrong can someone please tell me why and if anyone knows what reg states it needs to be protected by an RCBO could they post it on here as I'm about to drive so won't be able to look it up until I get in tonight. Thanks

 

[Octopus]

so I put down for a Type C 20amp RCBO as the lights are wired in 2.5mm cable and LED floods.

Installation method?

 

[Pete999]

Got sent to a job today for an outside lighting issue, basically to cut a long story short I'm taking the new supply from a different DB so will be installing a new circuit to feed the time clock, so I put down for a Type C 20amp RCBO as the lights are wired in 2.5mm cable and LED floods. I got a phone call from my Manager to ask why I was putting an RCBO in and that it only needed to be an MCB, so after a heated discussion I was told that it will be an MCB going in not a an RCBO.
My argument was that as I'm installing a new supply it has to be compliant to currents regs so an RCBO was required. If I'm wrong can someone please tell me why and if anyone knows what reg states it needs to be protected by an RCBO could they post it on here as I'm about to drive so won't be able to look it up until I get in tonight. Thanks

Got sent to a job today for an outside lighting issue, basically to cut a long story short I'm taking the new supply from a different DB so will be installing a new circuit to feed the time clock, so I put down for a Type C 20amp RCBO as the lights are wired in 2.5mm cable and LED floods. I got a phone call from my Manager to ask why I was putting an RCBO in and that it only needed to be an MCB, so after a heated discussion I was told that it will be an MCB going in not a an RCBO.
My argument was that as I'm installing a new supply it has to be compliant to currents regs so an RCBO was required. If I'm wrong can someone please tell me why and if anyone knows what reg states it needs to be protected by an RCBO could they post it on here as I'm about to drive so won't be able to look it up until I get in tonight. Thanks

Got sent to a job today for an outside lighting issue, basically to cut a long story short I'm taking the new supply from a different DB so will be installing a new circuit to feed the time clock, so I put down for a Type C 20amp RCBO as the lights are wired in 2.5mm cable and LED floods. I got a phone call from my Manager to ask why I was putting an RCBO in and that it only needed to be an MCB, so after a heated discussion I was told that it will be an MCB going in not a an RCBO.
My argument was that as I'm installing a new supply it has to be compliant to currents regs so an RCBO was required. If I'm wrong can someone please tell me why and if anyone knows what reg states it needs to be protected by an RCBO could they post it on here as I'm about to drive so won't be able to look it up until I get in tonight. Thanks

Is your manager an Electrician, or is he a jobsworth, you are qualified, you make the decision imo

 

[MerlinGremlin]

It's clipped direct for about 30 cm then goes into some trunking and outside to a Wiska box! Personally myself I'd redo it in conduit and do a proper job. My Manager is a spark but don't agree with everything he says.

 

[Pete999]

It's clipped direct for about 30 cm then goes into some trunking and outside to a Wiska box! Personally myself I'd redo it in conduit and do a proper job. My Manager is a spark but don't agree with everything he says.

A jobsworth then? Do the install how he want's it done and give him the certificate to sign, if you are right stick to your guns, because as sure as eggs are eggs if you take his advice and it goes ---- up he is going to firmly stick it to you.

 

[MerlinGremlin]

Basically haha we've had a few instances recently with him telling not only myself but other Engineers that are C2 codings on are EICR are in fact C3 codings even though he's not the one doing the inspection and testing just going through the paperwork, it's a joke.

 

[westward10]

It's clipped direct for about 30 cm then goes into some trunking and outside to a Wiska box! Personally myself I'd redo it in conduit and do a proper job. My Manager is a spark but don't agree with everything he says.

Why do you think it needs an rcbo, from what you say and assuming it is a TN system I see no reason why it should.

 

[westward10]

Basically haha we've had a few instances recently with him telling not only myself but other Engineers that are C2 codings on are EICR are in fact C3 codings even though he's not the one doing the inspection and testing just going through the paperwork, it's a joke.

Some Codings can be judged from a distance after maybe a discussion with the person who did the EICR.

 

[LeeH]

Why do you think it needs an rcbo, from what you say and assuming it is a TN system I see no reason why it should.

Me Neither.

Can somebody tell me why when the cable is not buried.

 

[telectrix]

as above. @ OP, what reg. can you quote stating the need for RCD protection?

 

[buzzlightyear]

rcbo or rcd protection if buried in a wall .

 

[Dave OCD]

But these are outside lights,so for a minimal additional cost why not incorporate additional protection with an RCBO, I don't just automatically omit things because the regs don't deem it necessary, why not improve on the minimum required standards using common sense now and again ?

 

[westward10]

But these are outside lights,so for a minimal additional cost why not incorporate additional protection with an RCBO, I don't just automatically omit things because the regs don't deem it necessary, why not improve on the minimum required standards using common sense now and again ?

That is personal preference, the op is up in arms because he has been told it doesn't need an rcbo and from what he says it doesn't.

 

[The Ghost]

I don't think there is any compelling argument for an RCBO in this instance. Or for that matter anything in the regs that mandate RCD protection for spots outside. The regs speak of portable equipment for use outside, sockets up to xa and cable buried in walls. And there is special locations for lights I suppose. However I would agree with @Dave OCD why not when for a few pounds more you could make it safer still. However I imagine cost is the bottom line here.

 

[LeeH]

But these are outside lights,so for a minimal additional cost why not incorporate additional protection with an RCBO, I don't just automatically omit things because the regs don't deem it necessary, why not improve on the minimum required standards using common sense now and again ?

My argument was that as I'm installing a new supply it has to be compliant to currents regs so an RCBO was required.

Maybe common sense but it's an additional expense the 'boss' might have not catered for.

And the discussion was why he thought the 'regs' said it was required and his boss was a divvy.

 

[telectrix]

a few years ago, i was installing in a new build infants school. sockets were RCD, lights not.(16th ed.) i fitted a RCBO to the cooker circuit. boss grumbled and insisted the RCBO was replaced with a MCB. he was right as regards the regs. but my argument was that young kids might be poking around with kitchen tools, so i opted for RCBO.

 

[buzzlightyear]

It's clipped direct for about 30 cm then goes into some trunking and outside

how high are the led flood lights .

 

[Octopus]

Back to the OP - who spec'ed the job and had a price been agreed with the client?

 

[MerlinGremlin]

These fittings are on an outside of a pub, they had been installed a couple of weeks ago but the supply side hadn't been checked by the spark doing the job, don't ask me why or for what reason, I just seem to get sent to all the crappy jobs to sort them out, personally myself I'd put them on an RCBO for added protection due to being outside, possible chance of cable damage and the fact it's a new circuit.

 

[Octopus]

These fittings are on an outside of a pub, they had been installed a couple of weeks ago but the supply side hadn't been checked by the spark doing the job, don't ask me why or for what reason, I just seem to get sent to all the crappy jobs to sort them out, personally myself I'd put them on an RCBO for added protection due to being outside, possible chance of cable damage and the fact it's a new circuit.

What "direction" were you given? Were you aware of what the customer had agreed to be done and for how much?

 

[LankyWill]

I'm with the op on this one, id fit an rcbo in this instance as with it being a pub the internal wiring is probably a right mess. The external aspect is also a major part to play. May not be 'regs' but above and beyond never hurt anyone. Tell the tyrant to come and fit it himself he won't mind paying the extra £10 then

 

[MerlinGremlin]

No, I just got sent to sort it out, I don't deal with the cost or what had been agreed

 

[gazdkw82]

It doesn't state in the regs an rcbo is needed. So fitting one is personal preference as previously mentioned.

The key thing is, your not in a position to pick your own personal preferred pieces of equipment. That's a decision for the boss

 

[westward10]

Move on from it I wouldn't be losing sleep over it. Fitting of an rcd or rcbo in TN installations is for "additional" protection as required by BS7671, from what you say the fitting of an rcd would not be performing any of these prescribed requirements.

 

[Des 56]

No, I just got sent to sort it out, I don't deal with the cost or what had been agreed

I see no issue providing additional protection (if you are in a position to make that choice),however,you seem to have shot yourself in the foot with the above quote,so sorry Merlin but your boss, being aware that a mcb will do just nicely, its him that has to keep the business viable,best to bite the bullet

 

[MerlinGremlin]

I think I've just been spoilt at other companies I've worked for who allowed me to decide what needed to be done and what materials where required as there clients didn't care about the cost, that may explain the Banking crisis then to some extent as it was for all the big banks haha

 

[Andy78]

I think I've just been spoilt at other companies I've worked for who allowed me to decide what needed to be done and what materials where required as there clients didn't care about the cost, that may explain the Banking crisis then to some extent as it was for all the big banks haha

So it's you that was responsible for the recession .... I just knew it had to be someone on here.

 

[MerlinGremlin]

schneider stuff doesn't come cheap you know you get what you pay for