My first big job, made up of lots of little jobs, please help with pricing!

[Gringoking88]

Hi all,

The title says it all really, I have been asked to do a series of jobs in a 2 bed flat based in South West London. He's a really nice man and want to charge a fair price. Historically, I have only completed individual jobs at a time so am a bit stumped of how to charge for what he wants. I would really appreciate some advice from those more experienced. I have attached a simple spreadsheet below that I composed of what he wants, with brief explanations and as said would value your thoughts. The prices proposed exclude the cost of materials e.g. downlights, switches etc. If I am way out, then apologies in advance and go easy lol!!!

Many thanks,

M

 

[Pete999]

Hi all,

The title says it all really, I have been asked to do a series of jobs in a 2 bed flat based in South West London. He's a really nice man and want to charge a fair price. Historically, I have only completed individual jobs at a time so am a bit stumped of how to charge for what he wants. I would really appreciate some advice from those more experienced. I have attached a simple spreadsheet below that I composed of what he wants, with brief explanations and as said would value your thoughts. The prices proposed exclude the cost of materials e.g. downlights, switches etc. If I am way out, then apologies in advance and go easy lol!!!

Many thanks,

M

Correct me if I'm wrong, your price is £900:00 labour only? question is how long have you allowed to complete this work?

 

[Gringoking88]

Hi Pete,

I tried to work it out per point or per item based on a time I thought it would take me, e.g. im guessing I could do 7 sockets per hour at £8.00 / per point that would work out to be about £56 / hour.

Led lights I have basically charged £25 / point.

wall light replacement the same again assuming I do 2 / hour???

Am I way off on either the time it would / should take lol??

Thanks,

M

 

[Bobster]

Are they providing all hardware?

Are you not doing any testing?

 

[Gringoking88]

Hi Rob,

They would supply all light fittings, sockets, downlights etc or I would get them and they pay me, I would charge what I pay for them. In terms of testing I would test as need be and issue minor works as necessary.

M

 

[Bobster]

I can't see that you've allowed anytime cost wise for testing, writing certificates, notifying (if necessary). Cost of notification.

With it being London, is parking free or will this be a cost?

You need to be putting a markup on parts, it should still be cheaper for the client to buy materials from you with your markup on them than they could over the counter.

Have you anything in for warranty if a part fails, who's cost is it to replace and fix it?

 

[The Ghost]

Who is making good on removed pendant lights. And it sounds like this is a partial re-wire with all those downlights if I understand you correctly? So floorboards up to install all the down lights? In an occupied premises sounds like a bit more than just what you list? Is there insulation in the loft?

 

[Gringoking88]

Rob,

Thanks for the info. I was thinking this would be incorporated into the item cost that I have given as tbh the estimate quickly added up, so got scared lol! Parking is not an issue and it is literally a 5 min drive from my house which is very convinient lol.

In terms of warrenty TBH I did not even think of it but everything being supplied and fitted is a faily simple job in itslef and as they are so near doesnt really bother me if I have to swap something over but again appreciate the shout.

M

 

[Pete999]

Hi Pete,

I tried to work it out per point or per item based on a time I thought it would take me, e.g. im guessing I could do 7 sockets per hour at £8.00 / per point that would work out to be about £56 / hour.

Led lights I have basically charged £25 / point.

wall light replacement the same again assuming I do 2 / hour???

Am I way off on either the time it would / should take lol??

Thanks,

M

Having worked for HMG for most of my working life, with the odd job at weekends or days off to help my Son, my advice may be a bit wayward. How most people do pricing is on a per day rate plus materials plus your mark up on materials.
The best I can offer is estimate how many days you think it will take to do the job, not individually, add you materials and mark up.
When the other guys get chance they will be able to offer better advice, because they are doing this sort of thing daily.
I don't know what the day rate is for Electricians in your area, even as old as I am I reckon I could CHANGE like for like 10 socket in an hour, at your price that would be £80:00 an hour without materials, sockets at, say £3.50 each that's a further £35:00 so £115: 00/hour, a bit steep if you ask me, as I say my pricing may be off, sorry I can't offer any better help.

 

[Gringoking88]

Who is making good on removed pendant lights. And it sounds like this is a partial re-wire with all those downlights if I understand you correctly? So floorboards up to install all the down lights? In an occupied premises sounds like a bit more than just what you list? Is there insulation in the loft?

Hi Vortigern,

The customer is refurbishing the property so they will do the make good, I would do an easyfill job if they wanted but thats as far as it would go lol. The flat is on the top floor and I have access to the loft (which is insulated and at present it is unoccupied, just has trades people in it.

Thanks for the reply

 

[Taylortwocities]

I think you need more time per point.

Also, as it's a flat, do you have free access to the ceiling from above. You have a real problem if you don't.

 

[Gringoking88]

Having worked for HMG for most of my working life, with the odd job at weekends or days off to help my Son, my advice may be a bit wayward. How most people do pricing is on a per day rate plus materials plus your mark up on materials.
The best I can offer is estimate how many days you think it will take to do the job, not individually, add you materials and mark up.
When the other guys get chance they will be able to offer better advice, because they are doing this sort of thing daily.
I don't know what the day rate is for Electricians in your area, even as old as I am I reckon I could CHANGE like for like 10 socket in an hour, at your price that would be £80:00 an hour without materials, sockets at, say £3.50 each that's a further £35:00 so £115: 00/hour, a bit steep if you ask me, as I say my pricing may be off, sorry I can't offer any better help.

Pete,

Really helpful, thanks,

M

 

[Gringoking88]

I think you need more time per point.

Also, as it's a flat, do you have free access to the ceiling from above. You have a real problem if you don't.

Hi Taylor.....

What would you estimate it would take per point including measuring / spacing the downlights etc. Luckily, access to the loft is not a problem.

Cheers,

M

 

[telectrix]

don't think your estimate is far out. i'd be looking @ 4 days labour £1000 , but london prices i'd think would be 30% higher. remember a call-out in london a firm went on. immersion heater not working. electrician reset over heat cou-out. waited 5 mins to ensure water was heating, 15 minutes total on site. bill was £250 + VAT.

 

[Taylortwocities]

As your sockets are just replacement, that's probably about right. At least you havent got to lift floors, run new cables, etc.
I would up your per downlight price by a tenner each. there's a lot of messing about with those, especially if you are on your own.

Beware of assuming wall lights will be an easy swop. they aren't. (Hobby horse time).
The MD of companies making wall lights should be COMPELLED to try and install one of their lights. Often they are only just able to accomodate one single cable in the housing and supply a stupidly small terminal box to do this. Often you'll have two or more cables to deal with.
Then you'll find that the supporting brackets can't go where you want them to go because theres a great big hole from the old wall light, or because the cable runs just where the support screws are to go.... its fun (not).
Those plaster fittings are a challenge too. You'll need a cranked right angled screwdriver to get to the screw head.
I'd add at least half an hour to your assumed time for each light.

Materials price. Even for mates I add 20% to my cost. More for everybody else. He may be a nice man, but you have a living to make.
If you buy materials you have to add your time to identify the products, order, collect or take delivery. That's all your value add and your time. And then you will take on the responsibility for the materials.

 

[Octopus]

You are going about this the wrong way round.

How much do you think your annual overheads will be?

How much do you need to earn per hour before tax?

Then assume you will work about 220 days per year ....

Also to avoid abuse, best you get your profile updated from DIY.

 

[Octopus]

Duplicate deleted

 

[Bobster]

I'm beginning to suspect he is still DIY, a trading electrician would know everything mentioned already or would've gone bust.

 

[Pete999]

I'm beginning to suspect he is still DIY, a trading electrician would know everything mentioned already or would've gone bust.

He is a Trainee I think. Yes deffo a Trainee

 

[Octopus]

If he's a trainee, why is he going alone?

 

[Gringoking88]

don't think your estimate is far out. i'd be looking @ 4 days labour £1000 , but london prices i'd think would be 30% higher. remember a call-out in london a firm went on. immersion heater not working. electrician reset over heat cou-out. waited 5 mins to ensure water was heating, 15 minutes total on site. bill was £250 + VAT.

Wow that is what I call taking the p**S!!!!

 

[Pete999]

If he's a trainee, why is he going alone?

Not sure, best ask him.

 

[Gringoking88]

As your sockets are just replacement, that's probably about right. At least you havent got to lift floors, run new cables, etc.
I would up your per downlight price by a tenner each. there's a lot of messing about with those, especially if you are on your own.

Beware of assuming wall lights will be an easy swop. they aren't. (Hobby horse time).
The MD of companies making wall lights should be COMPELLED to try and install one of their lights. Often they are only just able to accomodate one single cable in the housing and supply a stupidly small terminal box to do this. Often you'll have two or more cables to deal with.
Then you'll find that the supporting brackets can't go where you want them to go because theres a great big hole from the old wall light, or because the cable runs just where the support screws are to go.... its fun (not).
Those plaster fittings are a challenge too. You'll need a cranked right angled screwdriver to get to the screw head.
I'd add at least half an hour to your assumed time for each light.

Materials price. Even for mates I add 20% to my cost. More for everybody else. He may be a nice man, but you have a living to make.
If you buy materials you have to add your time to identify the products, order, collect or take delivery. That's all your value add and your time. And then you will take on the responsibility for the materials.

Taylor,

Thanks for all the detail, out of curiosity if you get a wall light like you have described what do you do lol?

 

[Gringoking88]

Not sure, best ask him.

I have not changed and tbh dont know how to change my profile from trainee to whatever it should be, also how do you quantify when your no longer a trainee, Im registered with NICEIC, insured etc does this make me no longer a trainee lol??

 

[Octopus]

Wow that is what I call taking the p**S!!!!

You've got a lot to learn about being SE, and earning enough to make it worth while.

Just keep a tally of all the hours you spend visiting clients, doing paperwork, going too suppliers, doing warranty calls etc .... It adds up a lot.

 

[Taylortwocities]

Taylor,

Thanks for all the detail, out of curiosity if you get a wall light like you have described what do you do lol?

Thats the benfit of you supplying the materials. That way you don't buy a wall light ( or anything) that doesn't suit the application.

That is one of the reasons that I hate customers buying stuff. Its like Forrest Gump
"you never know what you're going to get".

 

[buzzlightyear]

boy this guy must be working for nothing in London .looking at is estimate
no labour then. you are out there to make monies not give it away.
but he says the person how owns the places is a really nice person.
what happens when he does not pay is bill!

 

[Phil Thompson]

boy this guy must be working for nothing in London .looking at is estimate
no labour then. you are out there to make monies not give it away.
but he says the person how owns the places is a really nice person.
what happens when he does not pay is bill!

The guy who I had the issues with last night and still waiting to ring me to meet up was really nice too

 

[SparkyChick]

Taylor,

Thanks for all the detail, out of curiosity if you get a wall light like you have described what do you do lol?

I found myself in exactly this type of situation. The solution I used was to sink 25mm boxes into the wall behind the lamps. The terminations were made and secreted in the boxes. When the lights were fixed in place, it made an enclosure that could not be opened without tooling and you could not get your fingers inside. Took longer than expected, should have investigated the existing lights more thoroughly when I went to quote as all the terminations were contained in the body of the old lamps.

 

[SparkyChick]

I have not changed and tbh dont know how to change my profile from trainee to whatever it should be, also how do you quantify when your no longer a trainee, Im registered with NICEIC, insured etc does this make me no longer a trainee lol??

Have a chat with one of the staff, send them a copy of an invoice and providing you meet the other requirements you should be able to get access to The Electricians Arms.

 

[Taylortwocities]

Have a chat with one of the staff, send them a copy of an invoice and providing you meet the other requirements you should be able to get access to The Electricians Arms.

Don't forget to tell him about the initiation ceremony, and buying drinks for everybody.

 

[Leesparkykent]

I think your about £300-£350 light.....£45 a downlight labour only and another day and half for the other stuff.

 

[Dave OCD]

It's a bit of a gamble on how long an accessory change can take too, normally easy and quick until you find some where the original has been really badly done, short cables in sockets then L&N the opposite way round on the new ones,metal switches that need a new earth link from the backbox, plate screws cross threaded then rammed in, fun when they shear off taking them out etc etc. I'd look at the entire job in terms of days then allow a bit on top for snags, having said that though the OPs target hourly rate seems high to me.

 

[Billsays]

If your unsure just agree a day-rate with your customer. Tell him you can't be sure how long some of the jobs will take so its best for both parties if you charge just for your time. Your neck of the wood about £180 a day. If you have to get any gear put 20% on top to cover your time getting it.