PAT: Metal framed lightshade on class 1 ?

[1Justin]

Conventional metal framed lightshade on a class 1 luminaire. (Luminaire itself is all safe).

Lightshade insulated from brass bayonet lampholder by plastic diameter/size-reduction ring.

I thus define the shade as double insulated part, - and it's OK for it to float unearthed?

 

[LeeH]

I guess because it is very unlikely to become live then it's ok.

I never came across that in my PAT days.

 

[Badged01]

For me as the light (luminaire) itself is a class 1 and the shade is part of the light installation, its an exposed conductive part and so should be earthed! Why not ditch the plastic ring and fit a 'metal' one so using the earth already present on the 'bayonet' for the light shade?

 

[1Justin]

Because the metal ones strike me as dodgy way to get a nice earth connection: Painted metal on the 'shade (even if scraped back to the steel, it's not nice), against user-operated lamp/clamp ring which could be loose/lost or not fitted.

I think I'd sooner stick with the plastic ring and leave the shade to float, but not sure what others do, hence my question. There must me millions of such lamps in the UK, and though many are double insulated, a lot won't be. I'm surprised it isn't a common question.

 

[HandySparks]

BS 7671:
Exposed-conductive-part.
Conductive part of equipment which can be touched and which is not normally live, but which can become live under fault conditions.

No earthing to the shade required.

I'd argue that the shade isn't part of 'the equipment', it's just an accessory. The fitting would work correctly and be safe without it.

Plus, it's pretty hard to imagine any sort of fault that would make the shade live.

 

[1Justin]

Hi Handysparks. Agreed Thanks. Handy then there is a plastic ring. Painted lampshades direct to a brass lampholder wouldn't qualify IMO.
Rgds

 

[Badged01]

I'd argue that the shade isn't part of 'the equipment', it's just an accessory.

Have a read of the definition of equipment/electrical equipment in the BGB -- you might be suprised what the shade is!

 

[HandySparks]

Have a read of the definition of equipment/electrical equipment in the BGB -- you might be suprised what the shade is!

OK, I've just looked up the definition. I don't think it says that a shade is 'equipment'. What do you think a shade is?

 

[telectrix]

shade is a phenomenon that buggers up your solar.

 

[Silly Sausage]

What do you think a shade is?

It's one of the collective commonly known as shades.

 

[Badged01]

OK, I've just looked up the definition. I don't think it says that a shade is 'equipment'. What do you think a shade is?

All very much down to individual interpretation but mine from the BGB is ....
Exposed-conductive-part ; Conductive part of equipment etc......
Equipment/electrical equipment : accessories, appliances & luminaires .... (i.e. the lamp)
(You define the shade as an accessory. I actual think its part of the equipment but going with your your definition.)
Accessory : ... associated with such equipment (i.e. the shade as part of the lamp)

Ultimately you as the inspector decide what you asses/grade it as and your assessment will never be questioned ...... until a court of law has reason to look into it!! For me its all about covering your butt .....

 

[Darkwood]

Should i earth my steel toecaps when i hold a live cable

 

[Silly Sausage]

The luminaire itself, has been proven to be safe, so in the unlikely event of an E fault, the entirely trustworthy circuit would disconnect the supply.
The lamp shade is completely irrelevant!

 

[Badged01]

The luminaire itself, has been proven to be safe, so in the unlikely event of an E fault, the entirely trustworthy circuit would disconnect the supply. The lamp shade is completely irrelevant!

True for every Class 1 piece of equipment and their exposed conductive parts! Why bother earthing ……

 

[Badged01]

Should i earth my steel toecaps when i hold a live cable

Depends what else you are holding at the time and whether anything is splashing on your toe-caps :sad_smile:

 

[Silly Sausage]

True for every Class 1 piece of equipment and their exposed conductive parts! Why bother earthing ……

The shade is a secondary exposed conductive part, see Amendment 1 of the latest CoP for ISITEE.
As long as the primary ECP is properly earthed, anything attached is exempted! :wink_smile:

 

[Badged01]

The shade is a secondary exposed conductive part, see Amendment 1 of the latest CoP for ISITEE.
As long as the primary ECP is properly earthed, anything attached is exempted! :wink_smile:

I never cease to learn on the forum! Thats the first Ive heard of 'primary' and 'secondary' ECP's ..... but I will resist the urge to purchase the book to discover more!

 

[1Justin]

"secondary Exposed conductive part". News for me too. Thanks Archy.

I put a bid on the 4th edition CoP month ago but missed it. Maybe need to just dig deep and buy a new one.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

meeting disconnection times under fault conditions....

so, the BC holder is earthed.....

no need for the shade to be so earthed....and in fact a potential could be introduced by doing so....

 

[Silly Sausage]

I think I better add a disclaimer... (I don't want quoting anywhere!)
Don't take post 16 entirely seriously!!!!
I'll stand by it though.